KVR Audio

sinkmusic · Post by **sinkmusic** » Mon Dec 03, 2012 8:05 am

bduffy wrote:is there a way to make it default to a more neutral setting?

This is why i hope Sknote plugins will get a preset manager (where you can easily load presets, change the default preset, get rid of the ones you don' tlike, etc).

Compyfox · Post by **Compyfox** » Mon Dec 03, 2012 10:06 am

So apparently the "Over easy" mode is constantly active with the C165A - fine with me. And I can live with the idea that the "Auto" mode doesn't switch from "auto detect" to "manual" but two different circuits.

Can you say someting about the "Peak Stop" mode, Quinto?

If the limiter is active and I pull down the limiter threshold to -10, I barely get any noticable distortion, unless I drive the signal into it with the output - which in turn results in a hotter output signal.

This is a bit unfortunate if you use a reference level of -18dBFS or even -20dBFS (gain staging process), since the digital peak ideally barely reaches -9dBFS.

Thanks.

quintosardo · Post by **quintosardo** » Mon Dec 03, 2012 12:07 pm

That's a transparent limiter, after all!
Today we are used to look for distortion, but it shouldn't distort.
The red light means distortion (not starting limiting). We need to reduce compression or disable it to get full distortion...

keel · Post by **keel** » Mon Dec 03, 2012 12:22 pm

Since there is no demo, how is the cpu usage? And does the plugin steal the space in FL Studio? Thanks..

sinkmusic · Post by **sinkmusic** » Mon Dec 03, 2012 12:27 pm

quintosardo wrote:The red light means distortion (not starting limiting)

Ah, ok : that is what my ears were telling me

Could it be possible to add a visual indicator when the limiter starts limiting (without distorting), like for example the led becoming orange ?

how is the cpu usage?

CPU usage is a bit high, but it is due to oversampling i guess. So we should better say "cpu usage is normal for an oversampled plugin".

quintosardo · Post by **quintosardo** » Mon Dec 03, 2012 1:14 pm

Yes, the planned solution is a three_leds indicator for the limiter like the knee one

bduffy · Post by **bduffy** » Mon Dec 03, 2012 4:05 pm

Cool. Well, please consider changing the default threshold to zero in the next update. Otherwise, the plug-in is perfect!

Funkybot's Evil Twin · Mon Dec 03, 2012 5:08 pm

bduffy wrote:Cool. Well, please consider changing the default threshold to zero in the next update. Otherwise, the plug-in is perfect!

+1.

My absolute preference would be little to no compression, and a threshold at 0db. I prefer to start at no compression then work up to the sound I'm looking for. At the very least though, fixing the threshold so my tracks don't drop in volume would be much appreciated.

quintosardo wrote:Yes, the planned solution is a three_leds indicator for the limiter like the knee one

Quinto, some more things I'd like you to look at in an update:

Potential Issue 1:

Turning off the power has no effect on the Output gain. I would expect "Off" to mean that the output gain knob would have no effect. Currently, clicking Power turns the compression turns off, but the output gain remains at the setting on the compressor. The only way to get to the track's original volume is to set the dry knob to zero, or bypass the plugin in the host.

Example:

1. Load C165
2. Setup roughly 10db of reduction
3. Jack up the output gain to +10db
4. Turn off power to the plugin

Result: The audio is at the original uncompressed volume plus an additional 10db louder. This can result in a +20db jump in volume.

Expected Result: Turning power off would bypass the plugin entirely including output gain resulting in no net change in gain from original source audio.

Potential Issue 2:

Finally, did you see my post on Gearslutz with the audio examples of just how much nasty distortion gets introduced with longer attack times? It's so extreme and harsh I almost think it's a bug, but I don't have the original compressor to compare to. I checked in the Plugin Analyzer and the distortion clearly shows up there too.

If you haven't yet, I'd recommend checking out the examples and seeing if that distortion is intended. If not, maybe take a second look in the code to make sure nothing's wrong.

To reproduce:

1. Load a piano or acoustic guitar track then add C165
2. Get some decent gain reduction occurring by using the threshold
3. Leave the Attack/Release settings in their default position
4. Turn off auto mode

Result: Really nasty distortion. This happens on all source material. Distortion sounds digital in nature. The distortion goes away by increasing the attack time.

Expected Result: Maybe some saturation taking place at certain settings, but not the harsh sounding distortion that occurs.

Here's that audio example again:

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/13721946/C165%20Distortion.wav

1st Pass: Wet/Dry knob at 0%
2nd Pass: Default settings, 100% wet
3rd Pass: Same as 2nd pass only Auto mode has been turned off - lots of distortion

I really think there's something going on in the attack portion of the manual mode that perhaps shouldn't be. I hear a similar distortion with GTS-39 with high input settings, but it's nowhere this extreme.

bduffy · Post by **bduffy** » Mon Dec 03, 2012 5:29 pm

I agree, Funkybot; I find the 165's non-auto mode very, very aggressive in the distortion department (and it too reminded me of GTS-39), and I tend to just work only with the auto mode, which is fine by me.

But if that's what his model sounded like, then hey!

Masr · Post by **Masr** » Mon Dec 03, 2012 6:00 pm

This is really fantastic product considering the price. My best drum group and bass compressor. Highly recommended.

Masr · Post by **Masr** » Mon Dec 03, 2012 6:10 pm

OK, some examples.

Here is the original track without C165a:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/ge5sihydvaybo ... _track.mp3

Here is the same track with C165a on the drum buss (NY compression):

https://www.dropbox.com/s/wtwidzyo0mbjh ... _Drums.mp3

Finally the same track as previous with C165a added also to the bass:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/kj084riatf7g2 ... d_bass.mp3

Compyfox · Post by **Compyfox** » Mon Dec 03, 2012 9:57 pm

quintosardo wrote:That's a transparent limiter, after all!
Today we are used to look for distortion, but it shouldn't distort.
The red light means distortion (not starting limiting). We need to reduce compression or disable it to get full distortion...

Actually, this is what was advertised or at least hinted at to "abuse" the limiter mode for sound design (especially with drums). So I EXPECT distortion. But I need to drive the signal (output) drastically in order to get more drive.

I think this is where reference levels come into play again. If the plugin has an internal reference level of -18dBFS (like outboard gear), then the threshold is shifted and can be "higher" as well (better finetuning). Same with the limiter (which would react sooner as well).

So yeah. I think reference levels are a huge key these days.

Regarding a 3-LED System for the limiter - please leave it as is. It's a good C165A clone, there is no need to enhance it much further just to make things "simpler" to understand.

CPU usage:
Not much on my end. Then again, I haven't used it on many channels. If I'd love to see a FR being ported, then it's a customizable OS mode for your compressors.

quintosardo · Post by **quintosardo** » Thu Dec 06, 2012 12:43 pm

Masr wrote:OK, some examples.

Here is the original track without C165a:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/ge5sihydvaybo ... _track.mp3

Here is the same track with C165a on the drum buss (NY compression):

https://www.dropbox.com/s/wtwidzyo0mbjh ... _Drums.mp3

Finally the same track as previous with C165a added also to the bass:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/kj084riatf7g2 ... d_bass.mp3

Thanks for the example!

DJMashbot · Post by **DJMashbot** » Sat Dec 08, 2012 12:40 pm

Is the sidechaining only supported in VST3? It's not coming up as a viable input in Sonar, but Sonar does have issues with plugins sometimes...

quintosardo · Post by **quintosardo** » Sat Dec 08, 2012 4:07 pm

Internal sidechain only in this version.
THe upcoming external sidechain will be through inputs 3 and 4 (no VST3)

Sknote "C165a" vca compressor with saturating limiter and sidechain - Available NOW