Abbey Road/Waves REDD Console Channel Strip

[A.M. Gold]

Anyone know any details behind the two boards that were actually modeled...as stated by Waves...the Kravitz 37 and the 17 "owned" by Abbey Road Studios?
I'm just curious about the refurbishing of those vintage boards. They would have to have been rebuilt at least a few times since they were built in the '50s.

Good point, though I assume unless the Dutch board was modded, the circuit design would remain the same.

[hibidy]

My initial impression is to note the differences between this and NLS (which are interesting).

Just LOL. Worst kind of forum people, talk and know nothing.

Excuse me?

Looks like a drive-by to me

[Dean Aka Nekro]

crass

Great band and OTOT seventies present and correct

[Lenticular]

I've been trying out the demo, it's a pretty cool plugin.
The more I use it the more I like.

[annode]

Anyone know any details behind the two boards that were actually modeled...as stated by Waves...the Kravitz 37 and the 17 "owned" by Abbey Road Studios?
I'm just curious about the refurbishing of those vintage boards. They would have to have been rebuilt at least a few times since they were built in the '50s.

Good point, though I assume unless the Dutch board was modded, the circuit design would remain the same.

I don't think you 'got' my point.
...and what 'Dutch' board? Any modifications by Abbey Road were all pre-1968 (when the board was replaced).
And my post was concerning the replacement of the primary electronic parts and not modification.

[annode]

Also, Jeezo from 'Gearslutz' posted a home-made capture using REDD in a project.
Worth watching for the host's on-board spectral curve while he daddles with REDD's EQ. Much after that is just him wasting your time.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mWfQ8UKD ... r_embedded#!

[Compyfox]

Reagarding restoring:
Well, I rather think of "maintenance". It must have been. The "60ies drums" from NI were recorded on the REDD as well. And if components detoriate, then you either have to have spareparts lying around, or adapt. So it sure as hell won't be "the" 50ies/60ies sound anymore.


Also interesting to know is, that even though the REDD.51 (according to "Recording the Beatles" book) is an upgraded .37 (IIRC, more outputs, different routing), the .51 was not modeled with this Waves bundle. Just the .17 and the .37.

And I just ask myself why Abbey Road would sell the superior .37/.51 and rather keep the .17 one.



Anyway... I will take a look at the YT video, but my Q regarding crosstalk still remains.

[sunny_j]

Also interesting to know is, that even though the REDD.51 (according to "Recording the Beatles" book) is an upgraded .37 (IIRC, more outputs, different routing), the .51 was not modeled with this Waves bundle. Just the .17 and the .37.

Who says 51 was not modelled? Have you even looked at the Gui carefully? All 3 are modelled.

Regards

[tronholic]

Hello,

As there is option for REDD.51 amp in "REDD.37-.51" plug-in, but marketing material is unclear about the modelling of actual REDD.51 console, at least on surface level it is quite unsure how thorough their modelling approach actually is.

Have they modelled the signal chain from the console input to the output or
just single amplifier stage?In REDD.51 console there are three active amplifier stages, then there are those passive stages between active stages and lots of transformers.

I guess The British Grove Studios is the only place in the world that could provide access to actual REDD.51 console.The Revolution R.47 mic preamps,
which are modern reproductions of the original REDD.47 amplifier used in REDD.51 consoles have been available in the past.Abbey Road Studios do have these Revolution R.47 mic preamps.

Unless the REDD.51 amp option in plug-in is a mathematical derivative, it must be based on actual measurements.Were these measuments based on actual REDD.51 amplifier or on Revolution R.47 mic pre?If actual REDD.51 console was measured why its owner has not been mentioned?

Best wishes

[Compyfox]

Good question, tronholic. Which pretty much also answers sunny_j's question.


Yes, I did see the GUI, I did read the Waves pages. But the infos are so vague.


Personally, I'd be totally fine with the .51 - that alone is an interesting console. But the price for the "two band" EQ is still a turn off.

If they'd have gone the NLS route with actually creating a summing matrix, like the real REDD with the output switches, this would be an interesting concept for sure. Then again, there is hope for a v2 with that mode. Or someone being crazy enough to create that one in a modular environment with manual to reproduce in <insert hostname here>.

[MickGael]

My initial impression is to note the differences between this and NLS (which are interesting).

Just LOL. Worst kind of forum people, talk and know nothing.

Excuse me?

Looks like a drive-by to me

[Compyfox]

Just took a dive into the manual, thanks to a fellow KVRian.

According to the manual, it looks like the amp types (or boards) of the .37 is the Siemens V72 (the console by Lenny Kravitz), and for the .51 it was indeed (as guessed) the .47 mic amps. So chances are (and this is what I was guessing with the worn out equipment), it is the Revolution R.47 mic pre in this case.


But... I didn't find any info which one of the REDD's Abbey Road still have in their posession. According to NI's "60ies drums", it's the .17. THen again, no mention of the .51. So either they went with the EQ models by the .17 and .37 (IIRC the EQ's stayed the same until the .51), and got a hold of the .47 mic pre's somewhere else.

Or I don't know what's going on here. Apparently, the .51's in Abbey Road are gone for the EMI TG consoles, AMG NEVE and SSL. At least according to their page.

A little bit more info would have been nice for sure. This way we could track down where the consoles originated from (from a basement, from Elvis' new "offshore studio", or some crazy bum that has a spoon in his ear or something).

[annode]

Just took a dive into the manual, thanks to a fellow KVRian.

According to the manual, it looks like the amp types (or boards) of the .37 is the Siemens V72 (the console by Lenny Kravitz), and for the .51 it was indeed (as guessed) the .47 mic amps. So chances are (and this is what I was guessing with the worn out equipment), it is the Revolution R.47 mic pre in this case.


But... I didn't find any info which one of the REDD's Abbey Road still have in their posession. According to NI's "60ies drums", it's the .17. THen again, no mention of the .51. So either they went with the EQ models by the .17 and .37 (IIRC the EQ's stayed the same until the .51), and got a hold of the .47 mic pre's somewhere else.

Or I don't know what's going on here. Apparently, the .51's in Abbey Road are gone for the EMI TG consoles, AMG NEVE and SSL. At least according to their page.

A little bit more info would have been nice for sure. This way we could track down where the consoles originated from (from a basement, from Elvis' new "offshore studio", or some crazy bum that has a spoon in his ear or something).

Everything you stated and questions you had, I stated posts above, and i read it on the REDD product page @ Waves.
...and yes, they never use terms like emulation/modeled. They use the words "recreated" and "based on" when referring to their plugs and the REDD.

Watching Jeezo's video capture I linked to above, the 2 band EQ is very versatile in proper applications. The smooth roll-offs are typical of big-'ol slow filter capacitors of the era. Shelving and sweep EQ is nothing new to all mixing boards...but in the plug-in world it can be baffling for those who only know plugs. I'll mix with sweep EQ over anything any day of the week...and if the parameter is attached to a 'real' control knob, now your mixing! The REDD models at least give us interesting sweep and shelving envelopes to work with in a plug form. CC that to knobs and POW!!!

Waves explains the original purpose of the drive and gain on the original REDDs and from what I heard from Jeezo's tweeking (but more so from the Waves vid - link below), the plug does just that and sounds like it really works well and could be very useful. What the pre-drive/gain seem to be doing is acting like an 'up-compressor' where it's raising the low level sounds into the mid-level range and down-compressing the upper-level sound down into saturation. In the 1st Waves vid I can hear the verb of the drum room when he over drives it. Up-compression w/saturation can be very useful.

PS: Just noticed...at least with the 51, there is a summing master output section connecting track channels.

http://www.youtube.com/results?search_q ... soMD0FHoZA

[@midnight]

I wonder how the console emulation on this compares to Bootsie's free one

[Compyfox]

Everything you stated and questions you had, I stated posts above, and i read it on the REDD product page @ Waves.
...and yes, they never use terms like emulation/modeled. They use the words "recreated" and "based on" when referring to their plugs and the REDD.

If they work together with ABBEY ROAD, I can expect some sort of modeling/emulation. Else Abbey Road, and Chandler for that matter, are really(!!!) picky about such creations.

Watching Jeezo's video capture I linked to above, the 2 band EQ is very versatile in proper applications. The smooth roll-offs are typical of big-'ol slow filter capacitors of the era. Shelving and sweep EQ is nothing new to all mixing boards...but in the plug-in world it can be baffling for those who only know plugs. I'll mix with sweep EQ over anything any day of the week...and if the parameter is attached to a 'real' control knob, now your mixing! The REDD models at least give us interesting sweep and shelving envelopes to work with in a plug form. CC that to knobs and POW!!!

Sorry, but Jeezo might "hear" some stuff going on with this plugin. But like with the other video you posted below, the creators of these vids know jack sh*t about proper gain staging and working with audio (it's constantly in the reds! And that even on purpose). I had to turn off BOTH videos after 2-5 minutes because my brain hurt from all the nonsense.


What a lot of people don't get with such a plugin creation:

These consoles were build to make things easier back in the day. Nothing better was usable, so people at Abbey Road got the best out of it. If course an automatic roll off can work wonders these days. Of course this is all part of the modeling. But just slamming on a plugin and saying "wow - loook at dat - dat is drastic!" and then brag on about that this EQ is like a tilt EQ, then constantly overdriving the signal and clicking on the "mono/stereo monitor button" (which only takes care of the metering!) is just...

Just... no. It is a passive two band EQ design that uses cuts instead of boost. And this is why the REDD is so special compared to modern creations. The rest is not(!) rocket science or some magic voodo.


I mean... Jeezo didn't even get into the CLASSIC module, or how the faders correlate with the sound shaping of the console (according to the "Recording the Beetles" book, it's a coal resistor, no active parts - so that SHOULD introduce even more roll off the lower the fader!), why the drive is at -6 instead of any other setting. He even didn't provide any harmonic distortion plots. Maybe because he doesn't know it better. I don't know, and I could even care less after wasting my time with these videos.

All they do is actually offering clever marketing for Waves. But else (at least Jeezo) - don't know what this console is doing.


Also classic comments on YouTube.

Waves explains the original purpose of the drive and gain on the original REDDs and from what I heard from Jeezo's tweeking (but more so from the Waves vid - link below), the plug does just that and sounds like it really works well and could be very useful. What the pre-drive/gain seem to be doing is acting like an 'up-compressor' where it's raising the low level sounds into the mid-level range and down-compressing the upper-level sound down into saturation. In the 1st Waves vid I can hear the verb of the drum room when he over drives it. Up-compression w/saturation can be very useful.

Please... stop.

What you describe and what's actually happening here is another "amp" taking care of the signal (for compensation with passive devices - this is why this console had so many amps built in). If I understood the manual right, it's a normal "drive" - maybe modeled after a tube (since the console is a tube one). But I don't remember it being ont he console itself.

Anyway - driving the signal further results in some sort of "compression" and saturation - since it is what tubes do: create harmonics which in turn sounds like "more" and compresses the signal in the process. Much like a guitar amp.

Again, no rocket science.

PS: Just noticed...at least with the 51, there is a summing master output section connecting track channels.

I don't even know what you're trying to aim at here. Or what you're talking about.



No offense, but I think I devote my sparetime traveling over to a partner studio (that probably has that module already) and test the REDD myself. Then I compare it with the plots from the "Beatles" book, and then I decide if it really does what's thrown around in here and on YT or not.



Else, great that this plugin is existing. Still: I'd love to see the saturation modes of both the HLS and the REDD in NLS - but I don't think this will happen anytime soon. Maybe Slate Digital surprises us around xmas with another console update. But, don't keep my hopes up either.

In the meantime, I head over to Analog in the Box and grab that Siemens module for Nebula. And what do you know, they also ported a TL Audio M4.