ValhallaVintageVerb 1.7.1. Two new reverb modes (Chaotic Hall, Chaotic Chamber)

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ValhallaVintageVerb

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I was thinking of grabbing the UAD 224 or EMT 140 plate during their sale, but I'm a big fan of Valhalla (own the other plugins already). How does this compare to either of those for those that have tried it / Sean?

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bmanic wrote:I do however start to see a "pattern".. or rather a "sound" to your reverbs Sean, in a similar way that Lexicon reverbs have their own sound.

One of the differences to a lexicon reverb is that your mid frequency range, and low-mids especially, are quite strong. I seem to ALWAYS insert an EQ after both the ValhallaRoom plugin and now again after the ValhallaVintageVerb, on almost all sources, and have to cut 6-9dB of the 200-1000hz range, slightly depending on source. I usually use a dynamic EQ to keep it in context with whatever is feeding the reverb send.
I noticed this too...just last night actually. I spent a few hours doing some comparison shopping between the Relab LX480 and Valhalla Room, just trying to see how close I could get the two and whether I really needed to spend another $400. Anyway, I found two differences about ValhallaRoom: 1) the lows to low-mids were really pronounced compared to the 480, which blended into the mix better, and 2) the LX480 seems less dynamic in response compared to Room so the verb sounds almost compressed and stays in the background. I guess this is what people mean when they talk about how certain reverbs glue and others don't. The CSR verbs were also always good for needing some low end shaved off too. Another thing: the volume of the reverb in Room was much louder, but that's nothing a volume slider or a lower mix couldn't fix.

Anyway, a low shelf filter/cut is one of my wishlist features in ValhallaRoom.

VintageVerb has been purchased without listening. Based on Sean's previous track record, I'm comfortable spending $50 here without needing to hear it.

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Right the big question is. How does this compare to the Lexicon Native bundle and the new LX480?
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bmanic wrote:Just had a play with this beauty and indeed it is most excellent.

I do however start to see a "pattern".. or rather a "sound" to your reverbs Sean, in a similar way that Lexicon reverbs have their own sound.

One of the differences to a lexicon reverb is that your mid frequency range, and low-mids especially, are quite strong. I seem to ALWAYS insert an EQ after both the ValhallaRoom plugin and now again after the ValhallaVintageVerb, on almost all sources, and have to cut 6-9dB of the 200-1000hz range, slightly depending on source. I usually use a dynamic EQ to keep it in context with whatever is feeding the reverb send.

This is in extreme stark contrast to the lexicon reverbs where they just kind of mix themselves and never really intrude. In a way this is not at all realistic when compared to real rooms but it's an absolute god send when using it for mixing and placing things deeper in a mix. It's almost as if many of the Lexicon reverbs have a completely unnatural naturalness to them. Like a perfect room which my brain tells me can't exist. Kind of like a mix between a room and outdoors.

If you can come up with your own flavor of algorithm that has this Lexicon "scoopedness" in the low mids and mids, then you have a true winner for a mixing reverb. I think the lexicon "sheen" that many of us call it is exactly this reason. You send a source to the reverb and rise or lower the volume. No need for any tinkering with the reverb send as I have to do with so many other reverbs.
Are you talking about the Lexicon hardware, or the Lexicon plugins?

For the most part, I haven't heard this in the Lexicon hardware. I do hear a bit of this in the Concert Hall algorithm in my PCM70, but I'm pretty sure this is due to a filter implementation bug in that program (the RTHighCut filter doesn't really *cut* - it just adds strange coloration).

I do hear it in some of the Lexicon PCM bundle plugins, such as the Chamber. This could be due to an EQ thing, but it also might be due to Lexicon's use of the notchpass delays. A notchpass delay is a special allpass delay variant, developed and patented by Barry Blesser (creator of the EMT250). The goal of this delay is to avoid the weird group delay peaks you can hear in series allpasses, by notching out the peaks in frequency so that they are less audible. In the long term, this probably reduces coloration, but in the short term it adds a whole bunch of notches to the frequency response. I wonder if this is contributing to the "scoopedness." Just a theory.

Sean Costello

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After needing to sell the other plugs months back due to emergency funds, this seems to be the perfect thing to buy now that I have a little money again.
You are currently reading my signature.

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Is there a way to keep the 1970s GUI as default regardless of changing the color setting?
You are currently reading my signature.

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I'm too tired to tell (or care) whether this sounds good or not :drunk:

Rest assured, I'm going to torture this plugin tomorrow. I'm going to get even nastier than that dog on viagra (do you see a jokey emot? :box:).

Yeeee...changing GUI colours :clap:

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valhallasound wrote:
bmanic wrote:Just had a play with this beauty and indeed it is most excellent.

I do however start to see a "pattern".. or rather a "sound" to your reverbs Sean, in a similar way that Lexicon reverbs have their own sound.

One of the differences to a lexicon reverb is that your mid frequency range, and low-mids especially, are quite strong. I seem to ALWAYS insert an EQ after both the ValhallaRoom plugin and now again after the ValhallaVintageVerb, on almost all sources, and have to cut 6-9dB of the 200-1000hz range, slightly depending on source. I usually use a dynamic EQ to keep it in context with whatever is feeding the reverb send.

This is in extreme stark contrast to the lexicon reverbs where they just kind of mix themselves and never really intrude. In a way this is not at all realistic when compared to real rooms but it's an absolute god send when using it for mixing and placing things deeper in a mix. It's almost as if many of the Lexicon reverbs have a completely unnatural naturalness to them. Like a perfect room which my brain tells me can't exist. Kind of like a mix between a room and outdoors.

If you can come up with your own flavor of algorithm that has this Lexicon "scoopedness" in the low mids and mids, then you have a true winner for a mixing reverb. I think the lexicon "sheen" that many of us call it is exactly this reason. You send a source to the reverb and rise or lower the volume. No need for any tinkering with the reverb send as I have to do with so many other reverbs.
Are you talking about the Lexicon hardware, or the Lexicon plugins?

For the most part, I haven't heard this in the Lexicon hardware. I do hear a bit of this in the Concert Hall algorithm in my PCM70, but I'm pretty sure this is due to a filter implementation bug in that program (the RTHighCut filter doesn't really *cut* - it just adds strange coloration).

I do hear it in some of the Lexicon PCM bundle plugins, such as the Chamber. This could be due to an EQ thing, but it also might be due to Lexicon's use of the notchpass delays. A notchpass delay is a special allpass delay variant, developed and patented by Barry Blesser (creator of the EMT250). The goal of this delay is to avoid the weird group delay peaks you can hear in series allpasses, by notching out the peaks in frequency so that they are less audible. In the long term, this probably reduces coloration, but in the short term it adds a whole bunch of notches to the frequency response. I wonder if this is contributing to the "scoopedness." Just a theory.

Sean Costello
I hear these differences in basically all the lexicon high end units. My most familiar units being the PCM70, 480 and 960. I also hear this same "scooped" sound in the plugins. Even the mpx200 live thing has this kind of scooped sound too if I remember correctly.

You can get quit similar tonality on almost all the ValhallaVintageVerb algorithms simply by scooping out 6-12dB around 200-500hz.. to start with. :)

I'm not sure what's going on here but whatever it is, it's quite a convenience in the Lexicons, at least in modern pop/rock/dense music productions. Not sure if it's that good for filling in too dry classical and single instruments though. I almost always preferred the TC series of hardware for piano recordings. The lexicons just sounded a bit funny on these kinds of recordings.

Cheers!
bManic
"Wisdom is wisdom, regardless of the idiot who said it." -an idiot

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By the way, I got the Kurt Vonnegut reference. ;)
Incomplete list of my gear: 1/8" audio input jack.

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God, I'm SO disappointed in you!

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I forgot what the demo restrictions are.

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hibidy wrote:God, I'm SO disappointed in you!
:D

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I wish it wasn't a fade out thing for the demo. But I'ma try it anyways.

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hibidy wrote:I wish it wasn't a fade out thing for the demo. But I'ma try it anyways.
It's a smoothed, gentle, soothing fade out. Like the shadow of a wave moving across a white sand beach.

Sean Costello

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I don't understand. How can it be THAT good?????????

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