ValhallaVintageVerb 1.7.1. Two new reverb modes (Chaotic Hall, Chaotic Chamber)

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valhallasound wrote:
hibidy wrote:Coming from a guy who just shelled mad coin for the NI verbs, I still have to say.......for long lush verbage.....it's pretty damn hard to beat VVV. It's a seriously terrific verb , holds it's own to virtually anything.
I like to think of VintageVerb as "playing nice with others." In other words, I'm totally fine if people use some other reverb AND ValhallaVintageVerb. This isn't "Highlander" - there can be more than one.
The demo did get me that. That time out was like "omg, if I didn't have the time out it would be awesome!" :hihi:
[MrBurns]Excellent.[/MrBurns]

Sean Costello
Funny, "Highlander." You have great "brow" depth. That's a compliment. Reverbs seem to be up there with DAWs as far as many people's "need quantity" goes. Maybe it comes from the days when you only had one (or none), or a few, if your were lucky. I guess DAWs were AAWs than, generally with a console, multitrack and 2-track. Again, you might have had an early digital, plate, spring and/or chamber. I went from springs and tape delays live and at home to working in a real studio with a 224, an EMT 251 and an AKG BX20 (I think, I hardly ever used it). The console was an MCI JH636, and two of the sends were dedicated to the Lexicon and EMT.

Almost everyone worked there (and I came to find out elsewhere) with a long and short reverb. For me, if I was using Percussion Plate on the 224, I'd do something bigger on the EMT. If I was using Large Hall on the Lex, I'd have something smaller on the EMT. We'd do other things too, like using the live rooms, actual hallways, etc. as chambers, and setting up what was referred to as "room sound" on the Publison DHM89 B2 if it wasn't being used for pitch shifting. The latter was basically using it as a short stereo delay, in its delay mode. I thought I was cool using prime numbers on each side, Haas effect or external cross-feedback.

Those two main reverbs were just always there ready to go on the console sends and normalized to dedicated returns. We also had an Eventide H949 and a Marshall Time Modulator for pitch shifting, flange and echo. Everything but the digital reverbs had to be patched, like all the outboard dynamics, EQ, etc. We had a great selection of mics (Telefunken, Neumann, Sennheiser, Calrec [Soundfield], Shure, Beyer, Sony, RCA), but just used the MCI console preamps. I bring up the mics/pres because in contrast, now a studio is likely to have more reverb and preamp selection than that for microphones.

Reverb, like compression, allows you to "sectionalize" or contrast elements. It's nice to have a good selection, and depending on the degree of use, particular gear may be a signature element for a studio, producer or artist. As with anything, too much choice can be as bad as too little. There are great reverb options today, some of which are relatively recent. The market, such as it is, may seem a little saturated. I think that's mostly in comparison to what was previously available, and that in-the-box reverbs weren't generally on par with modern or vintage hardware. Now, many are, and even surpass outboard boxes.

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(takes a deep breath and tries to remember)

In the last 7ish years, I've really not had too many reverb purchases. There are VR VV (and I guess ubermod should be included there) and reverberate and then some reverb for some guy who went out of business. Then of course the NI ones.

Not specifically purchased were Reflektor (komplete) and blueverb (from some 99 buck nomad deal I got a couple of years ago) So I'm really set.

I have NO INTEREST in dongled (especially ilok2) reverbs, so that knocks a great deal out of running. I'm also NOT getting a UAD that I know of, so that again dismisses some candidates.

@playing nice with others: But of course! They don't all sound the same. I'm no expert but I reach for different flavors all the time.

@NI: Well, I demoed for about 3 weeks. I did everything I could to NOT get them. I really didn't want to shell 200 bucks (kinda pricey to me) for something that is a fluff effect. I couldn't do it. I tried to use what I have but there is something about them I cannot put my fingers on.

So there you have it. I don't really just collect them. NI is different from Valhalla (which are both different) which is different from convo and they are all different. I could have upgraded from "breverb sonar" to the full but was never tempted. Do not like! Never have, guess I never will.

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Cimbasso wrote:
cyphersuit wrote:I am looking for a reverb which can do rich, long reverbs. Top of my list is B2. Can VVV play in the same league quality wise? Haven't had the time to demo it.

(So far i am using Toraverb, Eareverb and Studio One Verbs)
It most definitely can and it can also do much more.
Regarding long reverbs, I came across this in a Vee3 review:

http://soundcloud.com/voxcaliber/valhalla-vintage-verb

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hibidy: Congratulations on the NI/Softube, but no Shimmer?

[semi-apologies to all for the pseudo-essay / over-caffeinated and hyphenated, I guess]

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hibidy wrote:I don't really just collect them.
I do collect them :P

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do you have all the ilok ones? I think I can afford a new guitar saving all the money I might spend on those :D

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I've demoed 95% of them ;)

Honestly, the only iloked verb I would/will buy rose from the ashes, if you know what I mean. Good price (in comparison) and a unique, pseudo-realistic, but non-instrusive sound makes it win, in my book :clap:

The rest make me yawn, when there are clearly decent (some might argue better) alternatives @ a fraction of the price, and with a non-dongled protection scheme. So yeah, I'm totally with you there :)

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Cimbasso wrote:
Cimbasso wrote:
cyphersuit wrote:I am looking for a reverb which can do rich, long reverbs. Top of my list is B2. Can VVV play in the same league quality wise? Haven't had the time to demo it.

(So far i am using Toraverb, Eareverb and Studio One Verbs)
It most definitely can and it can also do much more.
Regarding long reverbs, I came across this in a Vee3 review:

http://soundcloud.com/voxcaliber/valhalla-vintage-verb
:D

Every time I play my Moog Rogue through Vee3, it ends up sounding like a cross between Vangelis and Gary Numan.

http://soundcloud.com/seancostello/moog ... orus-space

http://soundcloud.com/seancostello/numangelis1

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valhallasound wrote:
Cimbasso wrote:
Cimbasso wrote:
cyphersuit wrote:I am looking for a reverb which can do rich, long reverbs. Top of my list is B2. Can VVV play in the same league quality wise? Haven't had the time to demo it.

(So far i am using Toraverb, Eareverb and Studio One Verbs)
It most definitely can and it can also do much more.
Regarding long reverbs, I came across this in a Vee3 review:

http://soundcloud.com/voxcaliber/valhalla-vintage-verb
:D

Every time I play my Moog Rogue through Vee3, it ends up sounding like a cross between Vangelis and Gary Numan.

http://soundcloud.com/seancostello/moog ... orus-space

http://soundcloud.com/seancostello/numangelis1
Love it! I'm sure that Sanctuary will sound great on synths as well.

Now..I hope that the next algorithm will sound great on orchestral stuff, Random Space and Chamber already do. 8)

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Cimbasso wrote: Love it! I'm sure that Sanctuary will sound great on synths as well.
It does. I just tried clean electric guitar, and that sounds FANTASTIC through Sanctuary. I think that the "detuning" modulation really helps in this case.
Now..I hope that the next algorithm will sound great on orchestral stuff, Random Space and Chamber already do. 8)
If Random Space and Chamber sound good on orchestral stuff, then Chorus Space should sound good as well (as it essentially a cross between Random Space and Chamber). Just turn down the Mod Rate or Mod Depth.

In general, orchestral stuff will sound good with a slow attack, a high modal density, and with as little ringing in the tail as possible. This translates to the following Vee3 settings:

- Higher settings of the Attack control
- High Size setting (for increased modal density and slower inherent attack)
- Lower settings of Early & Late Diffusion, unless you have a lot of percussive stuff in your orchestra
- Lower Mod Rate settings, to avoid excessive vibrato

Sean Costello

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I'm a big fan of Random Halls so I use them most of the time for orchestral work. That algorithm is used on countless soundtracks because it adds that nice, pleasant "motion". RHall presets in Vee3 are already great, they are very similar to PCM Random Hall parameters and sound. The only tweaking I do when working with Vee3 existing presets is to set BassMult to 1.20 or lower, the default value of 1.75 is too big for that, and change color to NOW. And that's it. Great sound after 3 seconds of tweaking.

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Cimbasso wrote:I'm a big fan of Random Halls so I use them most of the time for orchestral work. That algorithm is used on countless soundtracks because it adds that nice, pleasant "motion".
Random Space and Chorus Space are the same algorithm, just with different modulation. The modulation differences result in a pretty fundamental difference in the algorithms, but beyond that the algorithms have the same filters / delay lengths / Attack settings / input diffusion / etc. I tend to prefer Chorus Space, but if I was working with pitched instruments, or female vocals, I would probably use Random Space.

In the future, I want to explore the "random" modulation in other algorithms. I've thought up a bunch of different randomization techniques that would be similar yet different, but they have to be programmed and listened to in order to see if they are any good.

Sean Costello

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Is it fair to say though that sometimes a reverb sounds too much like a "chorus?" Sometimes I hear it too much to my ears.

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hibidy wrote:Is it fair to say though that sometimes a reverb sounds too much like a "chorus?" Sometimes I hear it too much to my ears.
No, it ISN'T fair to say that.

:D

The thing is, the "random" modulation has a definite sound to my ears. In order to be effective at reducing the metallic coloration, the Mod Rate has to be turned up to the point where I can hear what is going on. I can see liking that sound as compared to chorusing, but neither of them sound like a "real" reverb to my ears (i.e. what you would hear in a physical space).

This isn't to say that chorusing or the "random" modulation can't be used for natural sounding reverbs, just that I don't find the use of these techniques particularly "natural" in ValhallaVintageVerb, or in the Lexicon reverbs for that matter. I currently prefer the chorusing for my fake reverb sound of choice, but I want to explore more of the "random" modulation in the future.

Sean Costello

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Alright, I'm getting ready to make the b23 the official 1.0.1 release. Any last minute objections before I start the builds? I will send out the 1.0.1 update to all customers via MailChimp, sometime in the next few days.

Sean Costello

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