Let's discuss Dongled Effects

[Bronto Scorpio]

And the biggest irony to me is that the consumer has to pay for the damn thing. Seems like it's a deal between the developer and the provider of copy protection - why make the honest customer pay for that? And don't give me that "if you can't pay 40 bucks for an iLok, you probably won't be able to afford 200 bucks for plugin x" bullshit.

This! This! This!
Why the f*ck should I pay for the crack people? That's wrong on so many levels!

Cheers
Dennis

[Lotuzia]

IBTiLok

Call me , but I'm somewhere between "don't mind 'em" and "prefer 'em over others (i.e., challenge/response)".

Then I'm not alone in this position

[V'ger]

Paying for someone else's security is just plain bizarre to be honest, and I've had enough hassle with my eLicenser to be completely done with them all.

Will still not rule out dongle if the product is completely amazing and at a stunning prize, but can't see that happening now that top developers of practically all categories are doing serials and key files.

[Lotuzia]

Why just effects? Doing some market research?


Personally, I think that dongles are a great way for developers to protect their property. Ha, you weren't expecting that, I'll bet. I'll be the first to admit that my dislike for them is kind of irrational... it goes way back to those awful Cubase dongles that had to be inserted into the parallel port and caused all kinds of problems with my system back in the day. I realize that these problems have all but disappeared nowadays (have they?).

Irrational, yes, but there you have it. And the biggest irony to me is that the consumer has to pay for the damn thing. Seems like it's a deal between the developer and the provider of copy protection - why make the honest customer pay for that? And don't give me that "if you can't pay 40 bucks for an iLok, you probably won't be able to afford 200 bucks for plugin x" bullshit. I spend way too much on music software for that to be true.

And look at developers who are doing well without dongles. There are ways to get people to pay for your product that are much more elegant. Most people like to think of themselves as being honest and forthright. Software "pirates" (which is a dumb term anyway) are not all brazen criminals. They want to do the right thing, but they are sometimes mislead. They steal software because they can't afford it, because they are not conscious of the fact that they're hurting another person by their behaviour, because it's very easy to do so, and sometimes because they have been taught that it's okay to do so. Give them an opportunity to go legit, and many will follow.

A *cough* friend of mine used stolen software when he was still at university. Ever since graduating, he has paid for everything he used. He bought a lot of the stuff he used illegitimately, just because he liked it and wanted to support the developers. Not representative, maybe, but one example at least. I'm sure he is not the only one.

Market research : Not really. Basically its more to offer people a place to discuss all this and declutter multiple threads where it is debatted ad lib.

I"ve often seen the argument that anti dongle people post in these threads to inform developpers of their POV. Maybe we could agree that a sticky would inform developpers in the most accurate way. And allow the threads of plugs using dongles to focus a bit more on the merits, or not, of the instruments themseleves ?

Then yes, a lot of people who begun with non legal software find one day or another the yellow brick road. Education plays a major role in all that. But thats another debate.

As for the costs : Every protection method has its price. Implementing an efficient serial based protection, takes time to create8imagine it, time to implement the code, time to maintain. All this time is then not used by the developper to code the instrument itself. Ilok code is not trivial to implement, but eventually its more easy for devs, and takes less time to implement. In all cases, like we all pay an additional 10% in the supermarket caused by stealing, we as end users pay the different costs. Well at least thats the way I see it as a customer myself.

[pikadilly]

Paying for someone else's security? Then one shouldn't pay tax as well.

Dongles doesn't bother me. I buy dongled plugins if I need the tools.

[ChiTown24]

would be interesting to see the same poll run simultaneously on a forum like gearslutz. might make for some interesting demographic comparisons.

in terms of copy protection, dongle will always be my preference over challenge/response systems.

[V'ger]

Paying for someone else's security? Then one shouldn't pay tax as well.

How does that compare to selling audio software?

[hibidy]

Gunter Glieben Glauten Globen

"I got something to say.........it's better to burn out........than to FADE AWAYYYYYYYYY"

(cue bitchin power song :headbang: )

[hibidy]

You left out the fish option.

[Robmobius]

As much as I absolutely detest the whole dongle thing. I did actually buy an ilok.

The only reason I did was because, I REALLY wanted certain plugins that you could only use if you had one. In my case, Slate, Flux and Soundtoys.

I don't regret buying it, but I do slightly resent the ilok (or any dongle) in principal.

Because:

A) I had to buy a USB key, which was not too cheap (and its another piece in the chain that could go wrong).
B) It takes up a port in my mac - Which I badly need, thus more hassle.
C) It looks like it could be a right pain to recover your bought licenses if you don't have that 'extra insurance cost' (if I'm wrong about that I apologize in advance).
D) It's another thing that I'd have to carry around (which I'd loose, knowing my luck).
E) A minor quibble really in fairness. It's more cumbersome than just putting in a serial number form a company. Without having to dance around on their website.

Now that I have one that's the only dongle I'll ever use. Because it seems a ridiculous concept, to me anyway, to have multiple dongles for different synths/effects, etc.

Other than the points I've mentioned, the iLok is generally unobtrusive.

In recent months, I much prefer the way Plugin Alliance do business. So guess what? I've bought a lot of their plugins.


I've absolutely no problems with companies guarding their products - It's got to be done. But I would just like to see the process as ez as possible, and with the minimum effort for us paying punters who just want to make music.

[dayjob]

i recently sold all my iLok based plug ins. not that i had any trouble w/them on my desktop system it's just that i got tired of not having them on my laptop and moving projects back and forth was a PITA.

there is no way i'd travel w/a stupid dongle because i'd lose it, it would break or someone would steal it.

also, ILok's ZDT is BS. i've read far too many posts in various places about ZDT limit being too short and licenses not being replaced before temporary licenses expire.

also, license transfer fees are rapey.

that's my thoughts.. also, there were plugs i wanted to try but they used a different dongle.. synchrosoft or whatever.. so i wasn't going to add to my woes..

also, these days there is more or less a replacement for anything that uses a dongle with very few exceptions... those are the companies that will get my business.

[hibidy]

There is nothing here that hasn't been said.

In fact, if it was just "ilok" that's one thing, but now it's "ilok2" so now you need both. Some work, some don't, I don't want to spend all of my time organizing which f**king ilok works.

Where dongles get stickier is stinkrosoft (or is it elicenser now, who can keep up ) ilok, ilok 2, samplitude, which version, PACE, I mean.......I don't understand how to keep up.

a million years ago I got my ilok with PTMP. I did the ilok thing, I did wogic pwoh when it had a dongle. I've done cubase, arrrrrrrgggg!

I made a choice right about the time I went x64, no more. Nothing against people who use them, but I just sick of keeping up with accounts and so on.

BTW, I don't know what it's like now, but pace/ilok DID slow down start times in hosts. I don't miss that one bit

[Sendy]

I don't mind making my computer wear a dongle for something big like a DAW. Back in the 90's Notator for the Atari had a dongle so when Cubase needs one I'm already used to that. But for effects or synths? No way.

[hibidy]

One other for now, can someone PLEASE explain to me how ilok keep piracy down? Ilok stuff is generally more expensive AND now, there are so many more choices than 7 years ago......

[Nanakai]

Paying for someone else's security? Then one shouldn't pay tax as well.

Dongles doesn't bother me. I buy dongled plugins if I need the tools.

There's a difference between paying fot the security of your society and paying for the security of a company's profits.

I find dongles unforgivably annoying. I have enough USB ports filled without the hassle of X more for physical keys. I'm not a fan of C/R, but at least if my house burns down or gets sucked into a black hole, I can get the software license again.