Let's discuss Dongled Effects

[MFXxx]

Bearing in mind the rules :

Members are asked to respect the copyright of other users, sites, media, etc. Users linking to, asking for information about, or blatantly bragging about using, warez, crackz, pirated sample content, re-printing material without permission, etc. will result in your post being edited / deleted, and you may be issued with a warning and / or a ban.

In using purchased software in line with 1 computer, 1 user, not sharing and so on. If the inidivudal user found a more secure method of still using the software, why would it be wrong to utilise dongled software without the dongle. The problem I see is individuals on location with a laptop, 2/3 usb sockets, vunerable location and a collection of dongles is inpracticle and leaving the purchasing user of the license vunerable. This i surely commonsense to protect work continuity and a self insurance.

This is where I believe waves have got it correct but it is ill fated already. Yet Ilok2 still appears to remain secure.

It is a frustrating situation for users and developers alike.

Personally I love the simplicty of dongles, when installing a new system or pc just install software, load dongle and your away. As mentioned kjust wish I could transfer my licenses all on to one dongle whether that's e-licenser, iLok2 or codemeter etc.

[Lotuzia]

I'd really be interested in some solid statistics concerning this topic - but I realize we'll never get them due to an understandable desire for secrecy on the developers' part. Do dongles really prevent theft? For how long? Have (f.e.) Waves' sales increased since they changed their policy? They're doing a lot of sales (getting their plugins down to realistic prices imo), but are they earning more by doing so? What about PSP? What about Oxium - did Xils notice an increase in sales versus their other (dongled) synths? I know that the last question is hard to answer with respect to dongles, as Oxium was also more aggressively priced than their previous offerings.

And there are other questions: do some developers consider a dongle as a kind of "pro" certificate? As in: if you don't require one, you're catering to the "amateur" market? (I'm sure some customers think of it this way). What does it cost a developer to use iLok protection? What's the percentage of happy dongle users vs. those that have had issues with them?


Questions, questions, Dark Knight.

All good questions. I'd like to have all answers too

THe cost for developpers to use dongles is more per unit than some low cost products are sold for. Devs have to pay a licence actually.

For Oxium like you said its very difficult because the price policy was well ... like you say : Aggressive ( Just means very affordable for users no ? ). So what in Oxium success is tied to dongle/no dongle, affordable price, innovations and sound, we ourselves could not give a precise answer.

Most pro users are used to dongles, I'd say its a different culture than the hobbyist market. Honnestly I came to the conclusion that they just dont care if an instrument is dongled or not, they care only if they need it as professional, or not. I might be wrong, but that the feeling I get from speaking with a lot of pros : They just never speak of dongles etc etc its juts like if you're a plumber you have to use certain tools, and if you're a pro composer/musician etc, well, you need different tools.

[Lotuzia]

There are many wrongs with dongles. First you have to pay premium for a ordinary usb stick that you have no need and no use for. And you can not use it for anything else when you decide to drop the software. At least Waves has had some sense and my old 256mb usb stick that was laying around has a new life.
Second, it does not work well as a copy protection. All the dongle stuff is out there cracked and that makes it even bitter for paying customer to pay extra and deal with this dongle crap.
......

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Fortunately these days with so much competition it is quite easy to just avoid any dev who uses dongles (or other annoying forms of CP). And with most of the effects it's not difficult to switch from one plugin to another as they basically function the same, so the learning curve is not very steep at all.

These threads are good opportunities to adress some false truths spreading on the forums : Ilok2, afaik, has never been crac.ed, so this one at least is secure.

A lot of products using Ilok1, or Elicencer, have been ware.ed, but not properly,, and its rather funny, or sad if you prefer, to read some comments about some suspected bugs by warez users, that are just the results of the poor breaking of the protection.

Then I dont believe that products are replacable, be them effects, or synthesizers.

I see it this way : You have good products that are not dongled, and good products that are dongled. ( Probably less good products in both categories as well ) In other words, the fact that a product is dongled, or not, is not tied to the intrinseq quality of the product.

However, as products imho are not replacable, wich can be discussed, the possibility to use both dongled and non dongled instruments just adds to the choice. Its just that : A wider choice, and total freedom. This doesnt mean you cant do with only non dongled instruments, because I think that, for example, you can do good music with only freeware instruments. This just means that one's choices follow other and more complex rules than strictly " what is suitable/important for my music "

[Amon1973]

There are many wrongs with dongles. First you have to pay premium for a ordinary usb stick that you have no need and no use for. And you can not use it for anything else when you decide to drop the software.

eLicensers and iLoks are not ordinary USB sticks, as they are not mass storage devices. In the case of the eLicenser if you drop the software, you can sell it and have to give the USB key containing the license(s) to the new owner. In the case of the iLok, it is slightly different, as you have to transfer the license(s) to the new owner's account, but can re-sell the key as well.

[Firebird]

Let's discuss dongled effects here.

Rather than in the first ten pages of every new effect thread when a dongle is required.

You can express your thoughts here, discuss, love, hate, or just point out how much you dont care.

Anyway, I think the poll results will be interesting too. For everybody ( If only to recall ourselves that some nice people can have voted in all categories )

And if you want this one to become a sticky : Just post STICK IT +1

I understand why companies will use a dongle, they have to.

Its a shame they have to resort to copy protection but the simple
reality is they have no choice.

If they want to feed their family's and stay in business, that's the
reality.

Having said that, the dongle is tolerable.

The copy protection that makes you re-authorize every time there is a
major update just stinks.


It should be something that you can do once and forget about it.

[Elias1957]

I'll never get DAW software, synths, fx which are dongled. I've made the mistake to register my PT (and all the f... Avid fx), Speakerphone, Line 6 Podfarm to one iLok account. My dongle farm is build in deep in my 19" rack, so I've to transfer all licenses to another dingledongle when going mobile.

I like the way the Props securing their software, for VSL Ensemble Pro one of the three licenses are on my "mobile" eLicenser.

At now, I'm with Studio One rewired with Reason and all my Spectrasonics, Toontrack, NI, etc. stuff at home and mobile and my VSL EP license sleeps until is needed for use.

I want Altiverb to buy, but it's only iLok dongled. Sry for that, AudioEase.

And that's one of the arguments for me not to use Logic anymore, it's high priced dongled or any music software with the limitations to run only on one OS.

[robotmonkey]

There are many wrongs with dongles. First you have to pay premium for a ordinary usb stick that you have no need and no use for. And you can not use it for anything else when you decide to drop the software. At least Waves has had some sense and my old 256mb usb stick that was laying around has a new life.
Second, it does not work well as a copy protection. All the dongle stuff is out there cracked and that makes it even bitter for paying customer to pay extra and deal with this dongle crap.
......

........

Fortunately these days with so much competition it is quite easy to just avoid any dev who uses dongles (or other annoying forms of CP). And with most of the effects it's not difficult to switch from one plugin to another as they basically function the same, so the learning curve is not very steep at all.

These threads are good opportunities to adress some false truths spreading on the forums : Ilok2, afaik, has never been crac.ed, so this one at least is secure.

A lot of products using Ilok1, or Elicencer, have been ware.ed, but not properly,, and its rather funny, or sad if you prefer, to read some comments about some suspected bugs by warez users, that are just the results of the poor breaking of the protection.

Then I dont believe that products are replacable, be them effects, or synthesizers.

I see it this way : You have good products that are not dongled, and good products that are dongled. ( Probably less good products in both categories as well ) In other words, the fact that a product is dongled, or not, is not tied to the intrinseq quality of the product.

However, as products imho are not replacable, wich can be discussed, the possibility to use both dongled and non dongled instruments just adds to the choice. Its just that : A wider choice, and total freedom. This doesnt mean you cant do with only non dongled instruments, because I think that, for example, you can do good music with only freeware instruments. This just means that one's choices follow other and more complex rules than strictly " what is suitable/important for my music "

I'm not up to date with all the news from i-lock world, so you might be right. But out of curiosity I did a search for the first famous i-lock2 product I could think of and it's most certainly been cracked.

Of course when replacing products you have to take account that not all the plugins are exactly the same. In the case of the instruments, except Minimoog, you have to make a choice what you are going to use. The good thing is that with so many of them out there it is very easy to ignore the devs that use annoying CP. And there are cases where I would like to see a particular dev to do well, so I might bear out the annoying CP. But there's only one or two currently.
As effects are concerned it really is quite easy to replace one for another. There are some special cases that are really unique, but most of the time it's not a problem to find a similar counterpart for any plugin that is equally as good. Of course there always could be some minor differences and annoyances, but generally it is preferable to bad customer experience. And as you accumulate more plugins, secondary things like CP could actually become the most important thing one bases ones decision not to buy something. That's another problem with dongles. Not only do they often prove to be ineffective against piracy, they also prevent people from buying the software.

[JJ_Jettflow]

For Oxium like you said its very difficult because the price policy was well ... like you say : Aggressive ( Just means very affordable for users no ? ). So what in Oxium success is tied to dongle/no dongle, affordable price, innovations and sound, we ourselves could not give a precise answer.

Most pro users are used to dongles, I'd say its a different culture than the hobbyist market. Honnestly I came to the conclusion that they just dont care if an instrument is dongled or not, they care only if they need it as professional, or not. I might be wrong, but that the feeling I get from speaking with a lot of pros : They just never speak of dongles etc etc its juts like if you're a plumber you have to use certain tools, and if you're a pro composer/musician etc, well, you need different tools.

removed

[Dean Aka Nekro]

If I feel that any software that uses a dongle or other form of copy protection is worth the money and works well for me then I have done and will continue to invest in it. Ideally yes no copy protection at all but being idealistic is very far removed from realistic.

The notion that software needing an dongle is more professional in the eyes of people is absolutely ridiculous

£0.02p FWIW, All the best to all as always

Dean

[Burillo]

the most intrusive CP i can tolerate is C/R, i ain't touching anything dongled no matter how good it is. i prefer keyfiles or watermarked builds though (serials are OK but cumbersome to put in in case of reinstall).

[Kaboom75]

Lets all stop buying the best software because it requires a one time only £30 for the dongle.

[robotmonkey]

Lets all stop buying the best software because it requires a one time only £30 for the dongle.

Once upon a time this might have been true, but not today. If you haven't noticed even Waves - once the only quality plugin maker - has done away with dongles.

[ariston]

THe cost for developpers to use dongles is more per unit than some low cost products are sold for. Devs have to pay a licence actually.

Now that's a statement! So it is a substantial investment for a developer... does it include some kind of insurance in case the copy protection does get cracked?

For Oxium like you said its very difficult because the price policy was well ... like you say : Aggressive ( Just means very affordable for users no ? ). So what in Oxium success is tied to dongle/no dongle, affordable price, innovations and sound, we ourselves could not give a precise answer.

"Aggressively priced" is just a common marketing term, don't worry.

So... reading between the lines, Oxium WAS quite a success! Hey, admit it: it was because it was dongle-free!

[ariston]

Lets all stop buying the best software because it requires a one time only £30 for the dongle.

Wow, now that's food for thought. Give us some time to rub down the goosebumps.

[djanthonyw]

Lets all stop buying the best software because it requires a one time only £30 for the dongle.

You're missing the point. The £30 is not the problem, the dongle is.