Let's discuss Dongled Effects

VST, AU, AAX, CLAP, etc. Plugin Virtual Effects Discussion
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Dongled Effects

I prefer dongles over some other protection schemes
28
12%
I don't mind dongles, and use them when required
84
36%
I will never buy a dongled product, whatever good I think a product might be
118
50%
I only use freeware, so dongles are the least of my concerns
6
3%
 
Total votes: 236

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Kaboom75 wrote:Lets all stop buying the best software because it requires a one time only £30 for the dongle.
Agree with op... It's not the 30 quid. It's all the logistics post purchase.

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Yeah, I mean, IF it was uniform it wouldn't be so bad.

But 25 bucks a pop when transferring also, AND then the companies policy.

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Robmobius wrote:
Kaboom75 wrote:Lets all stop buying the best software because it requires a one time only £30 for the dongle.
Agree with op... It's not the 30 quid. It's all the logistics post purchase.
exactly. logistically, dongles are a nuisance. and as said.. there are plenty of options for dongle free software.. which is why it will hopefully become pointless to complain about them since we won't have to use them and all the devs who choose dongles will not have our business.

if it was $30 for a software dongle emulator that allowed 2 installs i might consider it... but no thank you really.. there are better ways to treat paying customers. dongles are hostile. make them an option for people who find them convenient otherwise throw them in a pile and melt them into speed bumps

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JJ_Jettflow wrote:
Lotuzia wrote:
For Oxium like you said its very difficult because the price policy was well ... like you say : Aggressive :) ( Just means very affordable for users no ? ). So what in Oxium success is tied to dongle/no dongle, affordable price, innovations and sound, we ourselves could not give a precise answer.

Most pro users are used to dongles, I'd say its a different culture than the hobbyist market. Honnestly I came to the conclusion that they just dont care if an instrument is dongled or not, they care only if they need it as professional, or not. I might be wrong, but that the feeling I get from speaking with a lot of pros : They just never speak of dongles etc etc its juts like if you're a plumber you have to use certain tools, and if you're a pro composer/musician etc, well, you need different tools.
One of the main reasons I bought Oxium (nice synth BTW) was that it was non-iLok. It is also the reason I have not expanded my Xils collection as well.

When I first bought my iLok, it was mainly to try out some Waves and URS plugin demos so if it stopped working, who cares? Now, with thousands of dollars of my money invested, I literally have all my eggs in one basket. If it fails, it a big headache. Too much to invest in anymore software without a backup license. IK Multimedia, NI, Spectrasonics and a host of other companies appear to be making good money without dongle protection and allowing more than one instance of the program to be a available to the customer if needed.

I fully appreciate the dev's perspective concerning the protection of his investment...I am doing the same. With no backup, if that dongle dies, I have weeks of waiting of a replacement. If I lose it or it gets stolen, I am done. I have to rebuy everything. That level of risk and that kind of hassle is fine for a few hundred dollars in titles but when it gets up to a couple of grand, that is too rich for my blood.
Hmmm with Ilok you can have an insurance. But not with Elicencer. This said a friend of mine had his dongle stolen, or maybe lost, during a music show a couple of years ago, and after some intense emails exhanges, he got all his software back. Xils is very friendly for this kind of accidents too, but I cant speak for other companies of course. Also this kind of events is more than rare. ( But not that rare that it cannot happen, and cannot happen to me, or you, its always beeing on the good or bad side of statistics tbh )

So like you said its more beeing unable to benefit form the software for a given time/
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Kaboom75 wrote:Lets all stop buying the best software because it requires a one time only £30 for the dongle.
one time ?? tell that to people who had to shell out for ilok 2 :roll:

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Burillo wrote:the most intrusive CP i can tolerate is C/R, i ain't touching anything dongled no matter how good it is. i prefer keyfiles or watermarked builds though (serials are OK but cumbersome to put in in case of reinstall).
Well, thats your experience.

Mine is completely different : The only two major software I cant use no more were c/r protected ( Tascam Gigastudio and Kjaerhus, so some pricey stuff .... :? ) ( And Tascam/Teac cannot be called a "small indy developper" )

That's why I prefer by far dongles over c/r.

One example ? The Korg Ms/20, Polysix, Legacy cell and Monopoly were changed to use c/r. But I kept them on my Elicencer key : Install fine on as many computer as I want in 1mn. No fear to see Korg abandon the server that maintains C/r, like Adobe reccently dropped the support for old versions of Audition and cs2 etc. Yes, Adobe, not the smallest company as well.

But dont be mistaken : I do use C/R as well ( example NI ) because I could not do without NI stuff. But if I could avoid C/R, I would. And its the same with SW Elicencer. I never use it.
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Robmobius wrote:
I've absolutely no problems with companies guarding their products - It's got to be done.
agreed, as long as they pay for the privilege

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Kaboom75 wrote:They should all just agree to one protection method or none at all and it needs to also protect the customers purchase not just themselves.
^ this

I didn't vote because none of the choices were quite relevant to my view. I own both, and dislike both, for the reasons above. I try to avoid dongles and C/R as well, but have bought some because the product was so good. The dongle has a significant negative effect on sales, no doubt in my mind.

Cakewalk uses the simplest and most respectful metheod -serial number. You can install on multiple computers. I cannot tell you how much I love that and how it has iunfluenced me to stick with them and I'm glad I did (now that X2 is finally as good as the competition). I have been using Cakewalk since the 90's, and stuck with them all this time. I've spent thousands on their software. No hassles...and I can still install any of the many versions I've bought over the years if I want to, even if they go out of business. They have probably paid through piracy but benefitted through sales.

Bottom line, they respect me and I'm a very loyal customer.
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Lotuzia wrote:
Hmmm with Ilok you can have an insurance. But not with Elicencer. This said a friend of mine had his dongle stolen, or maybe lost, during a music show a couple of years ago, and after some intense emails exhanges, he got all his software back. Xils is very friendly for this kind of accidents too, but I cant speak for other companies of course. Also this kind of events is more than rare. ( But not that rare that it cannot happen, and cannot happen to me, or you, its always beeing on the good or bad side of statistics tbh )

So like you said its more beeing unable to benefit form the software for a given time/
removed
Last edited by JJ_Jettflow on Wed Mar 29, 2017 10:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Lotuzia wrote:Let's discuss dongled effects here.
Why bother to ask on KVR, could have told you the outcome blind folded. IBTL?

Usual disclaimer: I prefer serial to anything - but give me Dongle to C/R anytime for this reason.
Last edited by dalor on Mon Jan 07, 2013 4:33 am, edited 3 times in total.
Cowbells!

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el-bo (formerly ebow) wrote:
Kaboom75 wrote:Lets all stop buying the best software because it requires a one time only £30 for the dongle.
one time ?? tell that to people who had to shell out for ilok 2 :roll:
Which (in my case) I got the iLok2 for *free* from Slate Digital, including free shipping (US > Australia) since they changed their copy protection scheme from iLok1 to iLok2.
Cowbells!

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an-electric-heart wrote:But, I forgot to say, I'm on the fence about ilok's themselves, it's still not exactly easy, you've still got install software (on multiple computers for me seeing as though my music computer isn't online), log into multiple sites, enter serials and fluff around plugging in usb sticks to make the software work!... But once that's done it just sits in the back of my computer to make my waves plugs work and I never see it.
right. I don't recall my iLok login and I only have it for one EWQL library which I almost don't use. That key is not plugged in typically. I prefer dongles to some things but I have to admit if it's requiring iLok it has to be pretty compelling. I guess I prefer the elicenser to other ways tbh.

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robotmonkey wrote:
Kaboom75 wrote:Lets all stop buying the best software because it requires a one time only £30 for the dongle.
Once upon a time this might have been true, but not today. If you haven't noticed even Waves - once the only quality plugin maker - has done away with dongles.
I'm not sure it has ever been true. Good effects and synths in both worlds. But different ones.

Its true that Waves, or Rob Papen also for example have abandonned dongles. Otoh, new companies like Lexicon, or Exponential Audio very recently, or Relab, or Slate, wich is not so old, have made the opposite choice. So .... :shrug:

It is possible than one day, in the future, one or the other of the available protection systems will take the advantage on all the other ones, be it because it is unbreakable, or the opposite : All solutions result in the same weak and worthless protection, or anything inbetween we can imagine. I'm not that sure its for tomorrow though. At the moment it seems that they are indeed several levels of protection efficiency.

Regarding the choice to offer both Elicencer systems : ie soft on HD, or on dongle, like Arturia, I just wanted to mention that not all companies have this choice offered by Elicencer. Quite few have it. Anyway I still prefer the dongle choice, for the same reason than C/R : If the servers should one day go down, you cant reinstall the instruments.

So, if all companies had access to the soft elicencer system, maybe this will solve a bit things. ( At least for companies who dont use solely ILok )
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Post

dalor wrote:
Lotuzia wrote:Let's discuss dongled effects here.
Why bother to ask on KVR, could have told you the outcome blind folded. IBTL?

Usual disclaimer: I prefer serial to anything - but give me Dongle to C/R anytime for this reason.
Well why not ? If we can't discuss things quietly on KVR, then what are forums for ?

Then, until now all this discussion has been very civil, and I'd like to imagine that people defending different positions are now more aware of the different possible approaches.

I dont really expect many people changing their mind, but maybe more tolerance and filling the gaps between isolated continents.

So I'll take this opportunity to thank all the people who voted sofar, and all the people who expressed their opinion quietly, and also .... a bit less quietly, but still in a relative peacefull way. :wink:

This poll just represents the opinions of KVR, cos there's a world outside KVR also, but eventually it is and will continue to be a faithfull picture of KVRians opinions about a subject that is very often debated in countless threads.

It has no other ambition than representing that, and offer a central place to debate about it.

LtZ
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My one and only experience with dongles was several years back when I replaced my Roland JV1010 with Steinberg Hypersonic, which required a Syncrosoft dongle. I was very happy with the virtual instrument, but getting the dongle drivers to work was a nightmare. I was constantly reinstalling them, rebooting my PC, and pulling the dongle in and out. Eventually I gave up and sold Hypersonic, vowing never to get a dongled VST again. I'd hope that dongle driver stability has improved somewhat in the intervening years, but its experiences like that which have strongly prejudiced a lot of us against dongles.

Having said that, C/R can be just as much of a pain. On a number of occasions, I've wanted to use an EZ drummer expansion, only to find that I need to reauthorize, and since I've already used up my two "authorizations" (due to reinstalling windows/hardware upgrades), I have to specifically contact them to request another, which effectively holds me up for a day.

I have a lot of sympathy with developers wanting to protect their products from piracy. But when it comes at the cost of a degraded user experience, its not surprising that many of us are looking to other companies with friendlier licensing strategies.

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