Let's discuss Dongled Effects

[hibidy]

That's funny, you just reminded me of something. I needed a fracking hub on the older computer when I used to have two dongles and now that I have enough ports, I don't use the dongles anymore

Sorry, back on topic.......

[an-electric-heart]

Buying an ilok was the worst customer service experience I've ever had.

Funny story...

I bought, waves SSL from Sweetwater (or somewhere? May have been Audiomidi... a download copy anyway). I paid for SSL, I was well aware I needed an ilok for it to work, I went to ilok.com to buy one.

The price is $40 plus $40 shipping, shipping to New Zealand from the states pretty much always costs the same as the item most of the time.

Anyway, by mistake I somehow ordered 2 iloks, I might have had internet problems or something and accidentally placed 2 orders.
I got an email saying "you ordered two ilok's, is this correct?" I said "Whoops, no sorry, I only wanted one", they said "can you confirm your credit card number?" I think I emailed my credit card number (getting dodgy) and the rep (or who-ever) then said "No, we need you to email a photo of your credit card"... ok, really dodgy now... but I neeeeed an ilok, I've already paid $400 or whatever for software.
I (foolishly) email a picture of my credit card (front only I think, still not comfortable with it), about three days pass, I email them something along the lines of "Well?!", the response after three days of waiting "Oh, that picture was too big, I couldn't open it", I send another re-sized picture, after more days pass, I contact them... again, the response this time was "I told you, the picture you sent was too big!", So finally I give in (I think it went on for longer that this too) and say "Ok you win... cancel my order", his response was basically "Ok, cool"

I email Sweetwater and say "sorry, I need a refund, it's impossible for me to get an ilok", the guy at Sweetwater goes, "Oh! We sell iloks", I say "Cool, gimme one!", (I'm not sure why I didn't think to shop else where, I think I was too burned out from the ilok.com experience ) it still costs $40 plus $40 shipping.

A month later or so I got Waves API as well when it was on special... and then maybe a month later ilok2 comes out, all new software that requires ilok is incompatible with the original and my ilok that cost $80 and a lot of stress is obsolete... HOOO RAY!!!

[an-electric-heart]

But, I forgot to say, I'm on the fence about ilok's themselves, it's still not exactly easy, you've still got install software (on multiple computers for me seeing as though my music computer isn't online), log into multiple sites, enter serials and fluff around plugging in usb sticks to make the software work!... But once that's done it just sits in the back of my computer to make my waves plugs work and I never see it.

[hibidy]

40 bucks shipping? That's INSANE! It's 14 bucks for a fits/ships envelope. It's a little tiny piece of plastic

[an-electric-heart]

40 bucks shipping? That's INSANE! It's 14 bucks for a fits/ships envelope. It's a little tiny piece of plastic

Music hardware in New Zealand is expensive, as a general rule in a retail store it seems like it costs twice what it's worth. U.S dollar and N.Z dollar are normally kind of close $1.20 N.Z(round abouts) buys $1.00 U.S. I suspect music stuff is expensive here because of the massive cost of shipping, for example, I was looking for live mic's recently an SM57 or '58 costs $80 U.S on ebay (so I'm guessing that's what you guys pay in retail stores) here, the standard retail price is $200. I buy some things off ebay because it can work out a bit cheaper. I was also looking at electric drum kits on ebay recently, same pattern, if a kit costs $300, the shipping is $250, if the kit costs $500 the shipping is $430... but then, when worked out in N.Z dollars, the total cost (price plus shipping) still works out cheaper than to buy the same model in a retail store... sucks.

[audiosabre]

I dislike the notion of a dongle. I find it a little unnecessary and a brute move in the struggle with piracy. However, devs made that decision and I respect that (still don't agree with it).

Last time I did a system update, ilok saved me a lot of hassle. That's the positive side. The negative side is when either the software or the physical dongle aren't doing too well.

I consider SoundToys, Softube, Slate, Kush Audio and Waves (back when they used ilok) examples of devs/plugins that are good enough to warrant owning/using the stupid dongle. If I had a choice, my licenses would be all serial numbers, but I will continue to use ilok for those fine plugins. I will not be separated from my SoundToys, ever

I got ALL my iloks for 'free'. One with a Pro Tools purchase, and the ilok 2 was a gift from Bang (Mr. Slate). I wouldn't consider buying one separately, only dumb people would do that, considering the many opportunities to get one included with a purchase

[hibidy]

40 bucks shipping? That's INSANE! It's 14 bucks for a fits/ships envelope. It's a little tiny piece of plastic

Music hardware in New Zealand is expensive, as a general rule in a retail store it seems like it costs twice what it's worth. U.S dollar and N.Z dollar are normally kind of close $1.20 N.Z(round abouts) buys $1.00 U.S. I suspect music stuff is expensive here because of the massive cost of shipping, for example, I was looking for live mic's recently an SM57 or '58 costs $80 U.S on ebay (so I'm guessing that's what you guys pay in retail stores) here, the standard retail price is $200. I buy some things off ebay because it can work out a bit cheaper. I was also looking at electric drum kits on ebay recently, same pattern, if a kit costs $300, the shipping is $250, if the kit costs $500 the shipping is $430... but then, when worked out in N.Z dollars, the total cost (price plus shipping) still works out cheaper than to buy the same model in a retail store... sucks.

Man, that's crazy talk! I could have got that dongle in store for 35, and sent it to you 13 (or is it 14 now) bucks and WALLA, INSTANT ILOK. anyways, that's robbery.

[ariston]

I'd really be interested in some solid statistics concerning this topic - but I realize we'll never get them due to an understandable desire for secrecy on the developers' part. Do dongles really prevent theft? For how long? Have (f.e.) Waves' sales increased since they changed their policy? They're doing a lot of sales (getting their plugins down to realistic prices imo), but are they earning more by doing so? What about PSP? What about Oxium - did Xils notice an increase in sales versus their other (dongled) synths? I know that the last question is hard to answer with respect to dongles, as Oxium was also more aggressively priced than their previous offerings.

And there are other questions: do some developers consider a dongle as a kind of "pro" certificate? As in: if you don't require one, you're catering to the "amateur" market? (I'm sure some customers think of it this way). What does it cost a developer to use iLok protection? What's the percentage of happy dongle users vs. those that have had issues with them?


Questions, questions, Dark Knight.

[JJ_Jettflow]

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[Spitfire31]

For me, dongles are a total non-issue. If a product I need (or want) is dongled, c/r, license file authorised or whatever, doesn't make any difference whatsoever to me.

I must admit that I have some difficulties understanding this almost pathological dongle fobia, that apparently make some folks rather abstain from a valuable tool than step down from their dogmatic ivory tower and get the best tools for the task at hand.

Different strokes, obviously.

/Joachim

[ariston]

I must admit that I have some difficulties understanding this almost pathological dongle fobia, that apparently make some folks rather abstain from a valuable tool than step down from their dogmatic ivory tower and get the best tools for the task at hand.

Guess what: people don't have to be dumb, crazy, dogmatic, or even elitist to be against this form of copy protection.

This is exactly what I meant in another thread: I've rarely - if ever - seen a no-dongle person disparage dongle supporters in this fashion. Just because you don't understand another's opinion is no reason to put that person down. Keep it civil, and these discussions will stay civil.

"The best tools" - are you inferring that the "best" tools are only to be had via dongles?

[JJ_Jettflow]

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[MFXxx]

I have few issues with dongle protection and if it helps preserve the developers product and income to produce further wares then great. I do recall seeing a post from Urs at uhe in regards to when a cracked version of his software's released his sales figures plummetted, so this must be the same for many devs and a major worry.

I respect Waves going to their cloud or any usb dongle scheme, but this has already been cracked and must have affected them. It is worth noting iLok,Propellerheads dongle, SSL dongle and Steinbergs elicenser latest version is still uncracked I believe.

I would like to see an opportunity for the ability to have all licenses on one security device so we dont need 4/5 usb sockets, but something like a simple usb hub (Rocketfish™ - 4-Port USB 2.0 Hub - RFNBSKHB | Rocketfish) is a great solution.

However there is the issue when going portable ie laptop in regards to the number of available usb ports. Macbook pro has 3, this is a struggle and a usb hub can be cumbersome. SO an option to install without dongles, like waves provide, is a great solution to avoid the illegal use. I can't help thinking of POV of view if you own a license and use 'downloaded' versions these must provide useful for some users and protet the user from risk of losing dongles when in using laptops in public areas ie clubs or performances.

When you see Native Instruments surviving without the need for dongles and their software is still out in the world of the pirates (I am guessing),they still sell a lot and allow you to install on upto 3 systems. Great flexibility. If I am not mistaken Xils-Lab have some products on dongle and some not, be interesting to see how this has affected their sale being in both worlds with their releases.

I believe to be anti dongle for the sake of it can be naive and senseless. I love the Slate Digital stuff Waves, XilsLab, Soundtoys, KushAudio and would not be without these so iLok makes a lot of sense and I would struggle to find as good equivalents, if so I'd have bought them.

You can also go to to the extreme that developers have no need to charge for their software at all. After all Bootsie(Variety of Sound), TAL and many others have released some excellent products that are free/donation ware.

So you have 3 points of view.

Dongle protection is charging the customer to protect the developers revenues.

Non-dongled software is protecting the end user from additional cost of using the software but not the developer.

Free software is available so why is anyone paying for software and being naive in paying for software.

Of course support issues do come into play here.

Anyway I am a great supporter of a lot of software and there are very few Dev's who have not benefitted from me financially...for a hobbiest that's a lot of money! But I don't drink, smoke or go out and the family live without heating, food and minimal clothing. We all huddle around the PC with chestnuts to keep us all warm as I create sundry loops and tunes that go nowhere....


I think one other option in the poll should be :

Have you ever used dongled software with the dongle!?

Peace

[sin night]

I'm fine with everything that is not c/r (though I have some c/r software), the important thing is that is not too much intrusive so it doesn't make me waste too much time.

[JJ_Jettflow]

I think one other option in the poll should be :

Have you ever used dongled software with the dongle!?

Peace

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