recommend me a reverb as good as valhalla

[Echoes in the Attic]

A couple notes:

We consider B2 to be a modular spatial FX processor.

Regarding CPU usage, B2 is a modular beast. It can get very hungry. ... But B2 is modular.

I've seen you describe B2 as modular so many times I've forgotten what the word means now, so you'll have to forgive me, but I've never understood what makes it modular. I know that the first reverb module can be be fed into the second, but wouldn't that be a stretch to even call it semi-modular? I mean the routing is either 1st into 2nd at some mix, or not at all right? Other than the one reverb sending an audio signal into the second, it seems like a fixed architecture to me. Not that that's bad or anything. What am I missing? I've always wondered.

[valhallasound]

Sascha Evermeister, certainly does He is a genius, and i don't mean just reverb. his other suff is even more impressive.

Thanks for the name! Time to add him to the list of reverb designers to watch out for.

Here's a partial list - feel free to add people:

Sean Costello (Valhalla DSP, plus one plugin under contract to the good folks at Audio Damage)
Martin Lind (Warp69, author of CSR, SSL X-Verb, Relab LX480)
Andrew Souter (2CAudio)
Michael Carnes (formerly Lexicon, now Exponential Audio)
Froombosch (not sure of real name, Empty Room Systems)
Jonathan Abel (formerly of Universal Audio, designed EMT140, DreamVerb)
Barry Blesser (original EMT250 designer, consults for Lexicon & UA)
Sascha Evermeister (Samplitude, now U-He)
Anthony Agnello (Eventide, Princeton Digital)
David Griesinger (Lexicon - not sure if he is currently active)
Chris Moore (Ursa Major, AKG, consulted for Kurzweil)
Michael Gerzon (deceased, but theory was crucial for modern reverbs)
Manfred Schroeder (deceased, father of digital reverb theory)
Andy Moorer (important reverb papers in the 1970s)
Julius Smith (CCRMA professor, wrote important papers on FDN and waveguide reverbs)

Sean Costello

[codec_spurt]

Don't know if it is better, but
http://www.stillwellaudio.com/plugins/s ... /verbiage/
don't get the love it deserves.

Really great reverb.

[ObsoleteAcc99]

Shit i hope I didn't spell it wrong Sean, i was going from memory!

some seriously talented people in that list!

[codec_spurt]

http://www.signaldust.com/p-tila2.html

Isn't it time this reverb was entered into the hall of fame?

[Andrew Souter]

Here's a partial list - feel free to add people:

Sean Costello (Valhalla DSP, plus one plugin under contract to the good folks at Audio Damage)
Martin Lind (Warp69, author of CSR, SSL X-Verb, Relab LX480)
Andrew Souter (2CAudio)
Michael Carnes (formerly Lexicon, now Exponential Audio)
Froombosch (not sure of real name, Empty Room Systems)
Jonathan Abel (formerly of Universal Audio, designed EMT140, DreamVerb)
Barry Blesser (original EMT250 designer, consults for Lexicon & UA)
Sascha Evermeister (Samplitude, now U-He)
Anthony Agnello (Eventide, Princeton Digital)
David Griesinger (Lexicon - not sure if he is currently active)
Chris Moore (Ursa Major, AKG, consulted for Kurzweil)
Michael Gerzon (deceased, but theory was crucial for modern reverbs)
Manfred Schroeder (deceased, father of digital reverb theory)
Andy Moorer (important reverb papers in the 1970s)
Julius Smith (CCRMA professor, wrote important papers on FDN and waveguide reverbs)

Sean Costello

...and Denis Malygin [2CAudio currently and formerly Spin Audio (Room Verb M2 etc)]

Manfred Schroeder [...and pretty much on par with Einstein]

[ObsoleteAcc99]

Don't know if it is better, but
http://www.stillwellaudio.com/plugins/s ... /verbiage/
don't get the love it deserves.

Really great reverb.

Let's say the two valhalla reverbs are judged to be the best reverbs in the universe for this example.

in comparison, verbiage would be judged to be the worst.

There is no WAY it could even remotely do anything coming say within 1/100th of the quality of any valhalla plugin.

verbiage used to be the worst reverb plugin available (imo), but it's now not. It's in the bottom 10, sure, but i spent a ton of time with the demo and worked out how to get the best out of it, and there are definitely worse ones. I am surprised you love it.. and i wonder if you have ever tried other more expensive (or in sean's case not more expensive) reverbs? I suspect you better prepare with a bunch of tissues surrounding you as you are probably going to multi orgasm when it happens

I used to say stillwell's TD was the worst TD plugin on the market and that still holds (including freeware).

Yet he makes some stuff that is over the top brilliant, and so does schwah, so this is NOT a knock on the overall company. It is ONLY those 2 i don't like, i could actually use all the other stuff in his lineup, and would buy at least half of it if it worked properly on mac 64. (sigh and if dynamo and sculptor or whatever it's called made it to mac.. celebration would ensue)


But doesn't updates and support count? we are entering the 5 year mark on mac and he has known for almost that long that the plugins crash logic's bit bridge.. and there have been numerous problems with logic and other mac hosts even when using a 32 bit host (crashing, usually the culprit)

i have NO idea how they are on windows or if development is still ongoing, but i can't see the bank having been a problem, as didn't his windows sales go through the roof??

I mean, everywhere i ever read it's as if every single member besides very few own at least one stillwell plugin. Between here and GS that's like 100,000 people at least. That's how I see it, could be wrong (and i do wish him the best, but he needs to get his act together on mac, really)


Um back on topic, NO, verbiage is not a contender for the valhalla crown, nor anything much else for that matter.

[Andrew Souter]

I've seen you describe B2 as modular so many times I've forgotten what the word means now, so you'll have to forgive me, but I've never understood what makes it modular. I know that the first reverb module can be be fed into the second, but wouldn't that be a stretch to even call it semi-modular? I mean the routing is either 1st into 2nd at some mix, or not at all right?

Yes, correct. But this is only a small part of it.

Other than the one reverb sending an audio signal into the second, it seems like a fixed architecture to me. Not that that's bad or anything. What am I missing? I've always wondered.

Short version:

• 2 identical and completely independent engines
• 3 Different Time modes: Full, ER-Only, Single Tap
• 36 damping and 30 EQ filter choices
• 33 Attitude types with 4 different routings
• 4 Density modes and 12 Contour modes
• 2 Modulation modes and 3 Modulation densities
• 4 Dynamics modes and 4 Dynamics routing
• 2 Different Cross & Width modes which achieve all forms of M-S processing

When all combined the possible configurations are staggering...

The set of choosing one setting for all these various options, could be considered an "algorithm" as various competitors may refer to them. (i.e. Room, Retro Hall, Blade Runner Space, whatever...) So you could successfully argue B2 is not an algorithmic reverb, but is rather a SYSTEM of algorithmic reverbs/processors. Enumerating the various potential algorithms/configurations would keep us/you busy for a very, very long time...

Edit:

for fun I just did a the calculation: B2 can be configured in 64,693,002,240 different ways according to some quick math...

~ 65 BILLION...

This is WITHOUT changing a single knob/slider/value. Only changing menu options and configurations...

[valhallasound]

Here's a partial list - feel free to add people:

Sean Costello (Valhalla DSP, plus one plugin under contract to the good folks at Audio Damage)
Martin Lind (Warp69, author of CSR, SSL X-Verb, Relab LX480)
Andrew Souter (2CAudio)
Michael Carnes (formerly Lexicon, now Exponential Audio)
Froombosch (not sure of real name, Empty Room Systems)
Jonathan Abel (formerly of Universal Audio, designed EMT140, DreamVerb)
Barry Blesser (original EMT250 designer, consults for Lexicon & UA)
Sascha Evermeister (Samplitude, now U-He)
Anthony Agnello (Eventide, Princeton Digital)
David Griesinger (Lexicon - not sure if he is currently active)
Chris Moore (Ursa Major, AKG, consulted for Kurzweil)
Michael Gerzon (deceased, but theory was crucial for modern reverbs)
Manfred Schroeder (deceased, father of digital reverb theory)
Andy Moorer (important reverb papers in the 1970s)
Julius Smith (CCRMA professor, wrote important papers on FDN and waveguide reverbs)

Sean Costello

...and Denis Malygin [2CAudio currently and formerly Spin Audio (Room Verb M2 etc)]

Thanks for adding the name! I knew it was "Denis," but not the last name.

A few other names:

Miller Puckette (re-inventor of FDN reverbs, did lots of work at IRCAM in 1980s, currently at UCSD, developer of Pure Data)
Jean-Marc Jot (IRCAM researcher, refined FDN theory, worked at Creative Labs for a long time)
Casey Dowdell (formerly of Lexicon, now developer of the Bricasti algorithms)

Sean Costello

[codec_spurt]

Um back on topic, NO, verbiage is not a contender for the valhalla crown, nor anything much else for that matter.

Ok. I consider myself smacked down. Good to see a man with the courage of his convictions.



I was going to buy the vintage verb next week. Must do. Will send receipt. Please give address.

If that's ok with you?

gulp.

[Michael Carnes]

Here's a partial list - feel free to add people:

Sean Costello (Valhalla DSP, plus one plugin under contract to the good folks at Audio Damage)
Martin Lind (Warp69, author of CSR, SSL X-Verb, Relab LX480)
Andrew Souter (2CAudio)
Michael Carnes (formerly Lexicon, now Exponential Audio)
Froombosch (not sure of real name, Empty Room Systems)
Jonathan Abel (formerly of Universal Audio, designed EMT140, DreamVerb)
Barry Blesser (original EMT250 designer, consults for Lexicon & UA)
Sascha Evermeister (Samplitude, now U-He)
Anthony Agnello (Eventide, Princeton Digital)
David Griesinger (Lexicon - not sure if he is currently active)
Chris Moore (Ursa Major, AKG, consulted for Kurzweil)
Michael Gerzon (deceased, but theory was crucial for modern reverbs)
Manfred Schroeder (deceased, father of digital reverb theory)
Andy Moorer (important reverb papers in the 1970s)
Julius Smith (CCRMA professor, wrote important papers on FDN and waveguide reverbs)

Sean Costello

...and Denis Malygin [2CAudio currently and formerly Spin Audio (Room Verb M2 etc)]

Thanks for adding the name! I knew it was "Denis," but not the last name.

A few other names:

Miller Puckette (re-inventor of FDN reverbs, did lots of work at IRCAM in 1980s, currently at UCSD, developer of Pure Data)
Jean-Marc Jot (IRCAM researcher, refined FDN theory, worked at Creative Labs for a long time)
Casey Dowdell (formerly of Lexicon, now developer of the Bricasti algorithms)

Sean Costello

You could add John Stautner, who did reverb and realtime control work at MIT in the early 80s. Moved on to do lossy audio compression work. The last I knew (or think I knew) he was at T.I.

[ObsoleteAcc99]

Um back on topic, NO, verbiage is not a contender for the valhalla crown, nor anything much else for that matter.

Ok. I consider myself smacked down. Good to see a man with the courage of his convictions.



I was going to buy the vintage verb next week. Must do. Will send receipt. Please give address.

If that's ok with you?

gulp.

i am sorry if i offended, you loved verbiage, i don't.. let;s look at it that simple way


you will love VVV.



Not intending to smack you down by the way, that's not how i roll! I was intending to inform that i think verbiage is crapiage, that's all!

[Beatworld]

Here's a partial list -

Froombosch (not sure of real name, Empty Room Systems)

Sean Costello

Harrie Munnik (luv your work )

[valhallasound]

You could add John Stautner, who did reverb and realtime control work at MIT in the early 80s. Moved on to do lossy audio compression work. The last I knew (or think I knew) he was at T.I.

I forgot about Stautner. He was the other half of the Stautner/Puckette papers that introduced FDN reverbs to a wider public (the basic theory for FDNs had been published by Gerzon over a decade earlier, but in a few papers that almost no one read).

A few more folks that should probably go in the "Prometheus" category, in that they published algorithms that had previously been industry secrets:

Bill Gardner (his 1992 M.S. thesis has a few algorithms that are similar to very early Lexicon stuff)
Jon Dattorro (his 1997 AES paper had a reverb design that was uncomfortably close to some Lexicon reverbs)

Sean Costello

[Arglebargle]

Sascha Evermeister, certainly does He is a genius, and i don't mean just reverb. his other suff is even more impressive.

Thanks for the name! Time to add him to the list of reverb designers to watch out for.

Here's a partial list - feel free to add people:

Sean Costello (Valhalla DSP, plus one plugin under contract to the good folks at Audio Damage)
Martin Lind (Warp69, author of CSR, SSL X-Verb, Relab LX480)
Andrew Souter (2CAudio)
Michael Carnes (formerly Lexicon, now Exponential Audio)
Froombosch (not sure of real name, Empty Room Systems)
Jonathan Abel (formerly of Universal Audio, designed EMT140, DreamVerb)
Barry Blesser (original EMT250 designer, consults for Lexicon & UA)
Sascha Evermeister (Samplitude, now U-He)
Anthony Agnello (Eventide, Princeton Digital)
David Griesinger (Lexicon - not sure if he is currently active)
Chris Moore (Ursa Major, AKG, consulted for Kurzweil)
Michael Gerzon (deceased, but theory was crucial for modern reverbs)
Manfred Schroeder (deceased, father of digital reverb theory)
Andy Moorer (important reverb papers in the 1970s)
Julius Smith (CCRMA professor, wrote important papers on FDN and waveguide reverbs)

Sean Costello

Yeah that's all well and good, but who on that list makes reverbs that are as good n cheap as yours?

Answer: none