KVR Audio

Aleksey Vaneev · Post by **Aleksey Vaneev** » Mon Sep 16, 2013 12:05 pm

Arrested Developer wrote:as i found out, the problem was the installed older version of the span component, which wasn't replaced.
After i deleted the old component, the installation worked correctly!
(documentation also is installed, this already worked before)

OK, but that's strange anyway. My tests show that the installer replaces a previous version. It's a standard Flat package installer. Maybe some access rights issue.

Tubeman · Post by **Tubeman** » Mon Sep 16, 2013 2:59 pm

Aleksey Vaneev wrote:It's hard to argue with the fact most producers try to get the loudest track possible. It's a reality which can hardly be changed by level metering standards.

Does this mean until enough support from said 'producers' no R128 mode then?

Aleksey Vaneev · Post by **Aleksey Vaneev** » Mon Sep 16, 2013 5:42 pm

Tubeman wrote:
Aleksey Vaneev wrote:It's hard to argue with the fact most producers try to get the loudest track possible. It's a reality which can hardly be changed by level metering standards.
Does this mean until enough support from said 'producers' no R128 mode then?

SPAN includes K-metering modes which are more adequate than a single-level R128.

Tubeman · Post by **Tubeman** » Fri Oct 04, 2013 7:27 am

Well, I'm glad not everyone thinks that way. ToneBoosters EBULoudness measurement plugin is compliant with ITU-R BS.1770, EBU R-128, EBU TechRep. 3341, 3342 and ATSC A/85.

The EBU published its Loudness Recommendation EBU R128. It tells how broadcasters can measure and normalize audio using loudness meters instead of Peak Meters (PPMs) only, as is common practice nowadays. TB_EBULoudness calculates k-weighted momentary loudness (LM), short-term loudness (LS), integrated loudness (LI) and loudness range (LRA) compliant with the EBU and ITU specifications, including EBU R128, ITU-R BS.1770, ATSC A/85, and supports EBU +9, EBU +18, and EBU +27 metering modes. Furthermore, true-peak levels (dBTP) are displayed as well. For more information on EBU loudness, please go here. For more detailed information on loudness measurement, the use of loudness meters in a broadcast chain, and an explanation of the various loudness descriptors, EBU has published this very useful document.

Besides compliance to loudness requirements, TB_EBULoudness is also a very useful tool to align or normalize the perceived loudness of different audio tracks (for example on an album). Differences in loudness (expressed as loudness units, or LU) can be directly translated into attenuation or gain expressed in dB to align the loudness of two or more tracks. Furthermore, the loudness range indicator can provide valuable information to verify the dynamic range of a track, and the potential need for dynamic range compression.

Aleksey Vaneev · Post by **Aleksey Vaneev** » Fri Oct 04, 2013 7:42 am

Right, here is another option for R-128 metering: http://www.waves.com/plugins/wlm-loudness-meter

Aleksey Vaneev · Post by **Aleksey Vaneev** » Fri Oct 04, 2013 7:45 am

The fascinating thing about weighted metering is that you boost e.g. lower frequencies, and you hear the loudness rises, but the meter does not even move

Tubeman · Post by **Tubeman** » Fri Oct 04, 2013 8:37 am

Well, the human ear is the most sensitive to middle frequencies. Companies have been using weighted metering for ages. Which is why I orginally asked about if SPAN has A-weighted mode but it was unanswered.

IIRs · Post by **IIRs** » Fri Oct 04, 2013 8:52 am

Aleksey Vaneev wrote:
Tubeman wrote:Yeah, loudness is everything, all we need really is a square wave meter.
It's hard to argue with the fact most producers try to get the loudest track possible. It's a reality which can hardly be changed by level metering standards.

Not by level metering standards no, but perhaps by volume normalising algorithms such as replaygain, or Apples "soundcheck" feature. If Apple made soundcheck default-on in the next version of iOS that would kill the loudness wars overnight...

sebaden · Post by **sebaden** » Fri Oct 04, 2013 8:59 am

deleted

Tubeman · Post by **Tubeman** » Fri Oct 04, 2013 9:38 am

IIRs wrote:
Aleksey Vaneev wrote:
Tubeman wrote:Yeah, loudness is everything, all we need really is a square wave meter.
It's hard to argue with the fact most producers try to get the loudest track possible. It's a reality which can hardly be changed by level metering standards.
Not by level metering standards no, but perhaps by volume normalising algorithms such as replaygain, or Apples "soundcheck" feature. If Apple made soundcheck default-on in the next version of iOS that would kill the loudness wars overnight...

Not so sure about that standards won't change anything. Broadcasting and movie companies use standards for sound levels and when the bands/producers want their music on movies or tv shows it will sound as "quiet" as the rest of the sound but instead it will sound like "quiet" shit because it's compressed to horse manure. I'm quite sure artists and bands get a lot of money from movie/tv music. So their option is to either make several versions of the songs or comply to standards slowly but surely. I predict EBU R-128 will end the loudness war. It already has over 60 manufacturers behind it.

Aleksey Vaneev · Post by **Aleksey Vaneev** » Fri Oct 04, 2013 10:03 am

I can still hear a serious loudness difference between TV channels, especially during TV ads, so I doubt EBU R-128 changed anything in the real world. It's a true value of this "would be standard". I like Katz metering system better, but it is not a game-changer either.

A-weighting is non-sensical in music and sound production, because it estimates the lowest possible sound pressure level a human can hear.

mabian · Post by **mabian** » Fri Oct 04, 2013 10:07 am

Aleksey Vaneev wrote:I can still hear a serious loudness difference between TV channels, especially during TV ads, so I doubt EBU R-128 changed anything in the real world. It's a true value of this "would be standard". I like Katz metering system better.

Are you sure EBU R-128 is being applied to the TV channels you're watching?

- Mario

Aleksey Vaneev · Post by **Aleksey Vaneev** » Fri Oct 04, 2013 10:08 am

mabian wrote:Are you sure EBU R-128 is being applied to the TV channels you're watching?

Of course, I'm not sure of that. But I'm sure TV channels use tech developed by one of those "60 companies that support EBU R-128". Which means this standard controls close to nothing.

IIRs · Post by **IIRs** » Fri Oct 04, 2013 10:19 am

I forgot to say thanks very much for SPAN, which sits permanently on my 3rd display:

Tubeman · Post by **Tubeman** » Fri Oct 04, 2013 1:21 pm

Aleksey Vaneev wrote:I can still hear a serious loudness difference between TV channels, especially during TV ads, so I doubt EBU R-128 changed anything in the real world. It's a true value of this "would be standard". I like Katz metering system better, but it is not a game-changer either.

A-weighting is non-sensical in music and sound production, because it estimates the lowest possible sound pressure level a human can hear.

Aleksey Vaneev wrote:
mabian wrote:Are you sure EBU R-128 is being applied to the TV channels you're watching?
Of course, I'm not sure of that. But I'm sure TV channels use tech developed by one of those "60 companies that support EBU R-128". Which means this standard controls close to nothing.

Is this how you act with your customers? No thanks.

Voxengo SPAN 2.6 FFT spectrum analyzer plugin released