u-he Satin or Slate VTM?

[Agility]

Heard from my buddy who has a beta copy of Satin that it's not as genuine sounding as VTM off the bat but says Satin has tons of options as we know so may require some tuning.

He's gonna A/B them for me with some stuff so I'll hear.. I know it's meant to come out on the 9th but I can't wait, been waiting since it was announced, I'm making music that pretty much requires a good genuine tape sound.

Pretty dissapointing if it doesn't atleast match VTM at an authentic tape sound after all this wait for them adding probably useless features? lol

But we'll see, I pray it is good as VTM as I've used VTM and it's the best tape plug I've used.

To OP though VTM is pretty solid!

[EvilDragon]

Your buddy's opinion is just one isolated subjective opinion. Draw your own conclusions when you try it out.

[Agility]

Your buddy's opinion is just one isolated subjective opinion. Draw your own conclusions when you try it out.

That goes without saying though I respect his opinion, there's a reason he has a copy.

I sincerely hope it sounds great, I just wish they'd put out Demos before, so we actually know what we're waiting for.

[recursive one]

Tapesims are such a subjective thing! Other guy over here also had a buddy who thought that TB Reelbus is crap

[EvilDragon]

Demos can be had if you ask Urs nicely. He already did a few early purchases and sent us the release candidate download links.

[Tp3]

Tapesims are such a subjective thing!

Almost every concerning audio - is.

Other guy over here also had a buddy who thought that TB Reelbus is crap

There are guys here who declare this personally, without the "buddy" thing.

89$ is a great price but we'll have to see how it pitches against other plugs.

[4damind]

Pretty dissapointing if it doesn't atleast match VTM at an authentic tape sound after all this wait for them adding probably useless features? lol

IMO Fabrice Gabriel and Steven Slate having a lot knowledge with this stuff. I don't think that U-He plays in the same ballpark but I expect something between Waves Kramer Tape and VTM.

[EvilDragon]

I don't think that U-He plays in the same ballpark

Sascha definitely does.

[Spitfire31]

KVR never disappoints. Here the would-be pundits are already offering views and comparisons on a product that isn't released and they haven't used themselves.

/Joachim

[Agility]

Pretty dissapointing if it doesn't atleast match VTM at an authentic tape sound after all this wait for them adding probably useless features? lol

IMO Fabrice Gabriel and Steven Slate having a lot knowledge with this stuff. I don't think that U-He plays in the same ballpark but I expect something between Waves Kramer Tape and VTM.

Yeah it will be interesting to see where it pans out, though it has alot of options so there is room to play though it doesn't mean it will fundamentally get the sound right, Reelbus has a lot of options but still doesn't sound quite there yet.
IMO Reelbus is OK but can it be programmed to sound like the records I'm trying to emulate? No, VTM does though and I'm no fanboy but they got it right.

Roundtone aswell is decent, falls short on a few aspects of emulating tape but not bad.

Price is irrelevant if it doesn't do what you need it to do.

All we can do is wait I guess, got my friend trying to emulate something with Satin I hope and pray it sounds good.

Spitfire31: I'm giving the views of a good producer/engineer here for the OP who HAS used both, so pipe down.

[Compyfox]

Pretty dissapointing if it doesn't atleast match VTM at an authentic tape sound after all this wait for them adding probably useless features? lol

The thing is with VTM, it's a "closed" system. Meaning, this plugin was modeled after two specific tape machines, and tuned accordingly.

As with all emulations of hardware gear, it's bound to sound different. For example: different head, different tape, just slightly different electronics. This all is adding up.

Slate VTM is based upon two Studer tape machines. An A827 (16 track) and an A80 RC (stereo). That alone sounds totally different. Add to that, the used tapes, the interaction of the reference level with the bias and bam. Specific sound.


Now from what I got from the manual of SATIN, you can have pretty much EVERY tape machine you want. Granted, you are limited to two types of tape (the two most favourite ones: more modern tapes, and earlier brands which are more gritty if driven too hard). But... this all is being compensated by the huge possibilities of the "Service" panel.


To my understanding, the Service Panel has contol over the tape bias, the head bump (barely anyone offers control over the head bump, which has influence on the low frequencies), you can change the gap of the repro heads (which also influences the frequency repsonse!), you can mess with the tape asperity (in short: how well the tape is in shape), compensate the head "linearity" with EQ modules (independent from each other!), and more.

The only plugin IMO that is getting close to that, is (to a certain extend) Nomad Factory Magnetic II, TB ReelBus and SKnote's RoundTone. But Magnetic has a tendency to overdo things (EQ wise), RoundTone is hard to setup (you have to listen!), and if you don't know the ins and outs of a tape machine, the same applies to TB RoundTone.


Fact is, that SATIN offers parameters that all other current tape emulations don't. Not even UAD's own Studer. Add to that the frequency plot you get with the Service Panel, and you can pretty much build the dream tape machine you like. And if I got that right (heard from an early adopter), also "variable tape speed". So you are not(!) limited to 7ips, 15ips or 30ips - you can set up something in between.


So does it matter if it sounds as good or better as VTM? I'd say no - because you can pull off things with SATIN, that other tape machines can't do. And you get a tape delay and flanger on top of it! Granted, it might not get as gritty as a Roland Space Echo in this mode, but definitely more versatile.

But we'll see, I pray it is good as VTM as I've used VTM and it's the best tape plug I've used.

I'm sure that SATIN will find it's uses. In my case, I'd definitely abuse the Noise Reduction modes. And having a 4-tap tape delay as bonus, is also great.

I heard the U-HE Satin plugin at last year's Music MESSE in Frankfurt and even back then I thought it sounded great (listened on phones). I'm very excited to try it. Our VTM plugin models two very nice machines but I've heard a lot of unique sounding tape decks and we can't model all of them. So I look forward to companies like U-HE offering us more options.

Cheers,
Steven

I just saw this and... wow... the competition (Slate Digital) commenting on a plugin creation in a very positive way. That is rare.

Granted, Steven is both a company CEO and an audio engineer/musician himself. But this should set a prime example. If you really like something, comment on it - but don't do promo for yourself. Because the promo comes automatically.

[EvilDragon]

The 4-tap delay is WICKED in Satin! Here I am, playing with the distance, modulation, ips, low/high cut and feedback, with absolutely NO input at all (using tape hiss in the service panel), and most amazing drones come out of it! All by itself!


Also, try putting Satin after Diva. It's awesome - some have said that Diva sounds too hi-fi and too clear in treble (because u-he extended the cutoff range etc.). Satin tames this VERY nicely, and you get a more authentic "mildly muffled analog" sound.

[Robmobius]

KVR never disappoints. Here the would-be pundits are already offering views and comparisons on a product that isn't released and they haven't used themselves.

/Joachim

This is it mate... Everyone an 'expert' on the Internet.

I have both now (thanks to Urs and his early release!).

I've only just scratched the surface of Satin, and it's very special imo. The FX in Satin are pure class.

But I really love VTM as well. So my original statement still stands, get both! if you can.

But if you're not into the whole iLok thing, then there's is only one choice really.

Re. the Slate Sale that I mentioned. VTM is 30% off at the mo' (but Satin is at the introductory price!).

I was tempted by the VBC but it's only 20% off. So I'll pass on it for now as it's 'a nice to have' not really an essential purchase.

Rob.

[Compyfox]

Can you actually "muffle" up the sound in delay mode? Meaning lowering the IPS and therefore get a more lofi (lack of HF content) sound?

I'm sure this is possible to compensate with the EQ modes, but I'm curious if you can get towards the sound of the Roland Space Echo (which is a 1/4" tape delay at 7ips IIRC).

[EvilDragon]

You should be able to do that, play with compander modes.