Acon Digital Verberate - New realistic algorithmic reverb

[solidtrax]

Happy new year to you too, Stian!

[subterfuge]

Thank you for the update Stian. I haven't really checked the CPU spikes specifically, but it sounds more clear, less grungy now when adjusting live. Actually the only one making some stutter seems to be the Room size % and I guess that one could be really hard to get totally clean.

Hey, in the Spaces presets there is one called Norwegian forrest. Now if you ever add more into that category, I think there should also be one called Fjord. I've only been to Lyngenfjorden (actually twice) and didn't get a chance to really test acoustics there. But even the Arctic Ocean silence was impressive there.

Anyways, Happy New Year for you too Stian!

[stian]

Thank you for the update Stian. I haven't really checked the CPU spikes specifically, but it sounds more clear, less grungy now when adjusting live. Actually the only one making some stutter seems to be the Room size % and I guess that one could be really hard to get totally clean.

Great! There are several improvements regarding the parameter adjustments compared to the previous versions. As you assume, the room size is indeed very difficult to get completely clean...

Hey, in the Spaces presets there is one called Norwegian forrest. Now if you ever add more into that category, I think there should also be one called Fjord. I've only been to Lyngenfjorden (actually twice) and didn't get a chance to really test acoustics there. But even the Arctic Ocean silence was impressive there.

Anyways, Happy New Year for you too Stian!

I just noticed that I need to improve my spelling, the preset name should be "Norwegian forest"... Some further outdoor spaces would indeed be nice. I'm not really sure to what extent water reflects the sound waves. As you say, the silence is impressive, maybe the water surface absorbs much of the energy.

Stian

[subterfuge]

I just noticed that I need to improve my spelling, the preset name should be "Norwegian forest"...

Haha, and here I was wondering if that was intentional.

Some further outdoor spaces would indeed be nice. I'm not really sure to what extent water reflects the sound waves. As you say, the silence is impressive, maybe the water surface absorbs much of the energy.

Same thoughts when I was up there. But at the dry end where the fjord was also much narrower, there were echoes reminiscent of canyons. That got me thinking about the combination of calm, subdued environment with more acoustic effect on the other end if called upon. And this in turn might or might not also describe some effects Verberate can produce, maybe.

[jefvTaon]

Hi, i own Altiverb 6 & i don't understand "This is the reverb for those who like clean and realistic reverbs like convolution reverbs, but are in need of more flexibility and tweaking possibilities without sacrificing realism." from the website... A6 has a huge amount of options for tweaking. I don't even use 1/2 of them.

Anyways, i'm interested in anyone who could tell me where Verberate out-shines A6? ... i didn't opt up yet to A7 because i was fine with what i had.

thanks much,
j

[stian]

Hi!

Hi, i own Altiverb 6 & i don't understand "This is the reverb for those who like clean and realistic reverbs like convolution reverbs, but are in need of more flexibility and tweaking possibilities without sacrificing realism." from the website... A6 has a huge amount of options for tweaking. I don't even use 1/2 of them.

Anyways, i'm interested in anyone who could tell me where Verberate out-shines A6? ... i didn't opt up yet to A7 because i was fine with what i had.

Algorithmic reverbs are completely programmable and not dependent on impulse responses, so they are more flexible than convolution based approaches. Parameters like room size and frequency dependent reverberation times are hard to implement in a convolution reverb.

Stian

[sounddesigner]

Will definitely check out the new update, Thanks Stian!

@jefvTaon, I think a natural sounding algorithmic reverb that's designed well sounds better than a convolution reverb. I think Verberate melds with the original source better and won't sound static in some way like convo. But the best answer is for you to try the demo of Verberate! Nothing beats demoing!

[kvaca]

@jefvTaon, I think a natural sounding algorithmic reverb that's designed well sounds better than a convolution reverb.

natural sounding fully algorithmic reverb is a typical oxymoron to me...yes, I agree that it can sound somehow better /=more musical,less static...etc/ than a convo reverb in some cases...but that doesnt mean it sounds more "natural"= more similar to some realworld reverb than good IRs taken from that real reverberant space

[kvaca]

Hi, i own Altiverb 6 & i don't understand "This is the reverb for those who like clean and realistic reverbs like convolution reverbs, but are in need of more flexibility and tweaking possibilities without sacrificing realism." from the website... A6 has a huge amount of options for tweaking. I don't even use 1/2 of them.

Anyways, i'm interested in anyone who could tell me where Verberate out-shines A6? ... i didn't opt up yet to A7 because i was fine with what i had.

thanks much,
j

tweakable convo reverb is a bad joke /at least if you are after realistic sounding reverb/
nice typical examples of that joke are waves IR 1 and late Altiverb versions...in both reverbs when you start any tweaking which directly affects used IRs they always very quickly start sounding unnatural to me

[sounddesigner]

double post

[sounddesigner]

@jefvTaon, I think a natural sounding algorithmic reverb that's designed well sounds better than a convolution reverb.

natural sounding fully algorithmic reverb is a typical oxymoron to me...yes, I agree that it can sound somehow better /=more musical,less static...etc/ than a convo reverb in some cases...but that doesnt mean it sounds more "natural"= more similar to some realworld reverb than good IRs taken from that real reverberant space

Some of the latest algorithmic reverbs such as Verberate and Izotope Nectar's Plate 140 use IR technology to create the algorithmic reverb (They're not hybrids tho but are pure algorithmic). The qualities I like about convolution are present in those reverbs but the flaws I hate are not. You should try the demo, if you love convolution it's a good chance you'll love Verberate since it shares many of the same qualities. Verberate and Nectar do not sound like other algorithmic reverbs to my ears, but again demoing for yourself is most important.

[kvaca]

Some of the latest algorithmic reverbs such as Verberate and Izotope Nectar's Plate 140 use IR technology to create the algorithmic reverb (They're not hybrids tho but are pure algorithmic).

well, I need to test them first, but again - theres something strange with your description... they are pure algorithmic...they are not hybrids...and same time they use IR technology

[sounddesigner]

Some of the latest algorithmic reverbs such as Verberate and Izotope Nectar's Plate 140 use IR technology to create the algorithmic reverb (They're not hybrids tho but are pure algorithmic).

well, I need to test them first, but again - theres something strange with your description... they are pure algorithmic...they are not hybrids...and same time they use IR technology

Convolution technology instead of IR technology might have been a more accurate statement from me. Verberate uses a convolution based processor and Izotope used Impulses when developing Nectar's plate 140. Here's a quote from Stian the developer of Verberate;

QUOTE: "The new technique is applied in the late reverberation and makes it possible to achieve the smooth decay without any perceivable echoes. This is combined with a convolution based early reflection processor, which is current state of the art. The early reflections are synthesized, though, so it is still a pure algorithmic reverb. " END QUOTE

With Nectar's Plate 140 Izotope used a real hardware Plate 140 reverb. They ran Impulses threw the hardware Plate and modelled Nectar's reverb from the impulses. I don't have alot of info on their technique but here's a link to their video where they explain a little bit, for more info you need to contact them - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bCdME2_Sjx8

If you want more info on Verberate's design technique well I'm the wrong person, but fortunately for you the developer's been posting in this thread (and started this thread) , just ask the dev Stian for more info if needed.

Marketing verbiage in front of most products is going to speak highly of that product and/or technique used developing it but 'the proof is in the pudding'. Marketing talk is not what's most important demoing is, that's why I emphasize demoing Verberate. I've owned Wizooverb wich is convolution for many years and no algorithmic reverb could keep it from being one of my main reverbs until I tried Verberate. If I could sell Wizooverb now after many many years of using and highly praising it I would since Verberate delivers and is some great tasting pudding ..


EDITED

[stian]

Convolution technology instead of IR technology might have been a more accurate statement from me. Verberate uses a convolution based processor and Izotope used Impulses when developing Nectar's plate 140. Here's a quote from Stian the developer of Verberate;

You're right. IR technology could be slightly misleading (although not wrong) since Verberate uses synthetically produced impulse responses for the early reflections. Convolution technology nails it, though...

Thanks for posting the SOS video. It's interesting to see that Izotope seems to have had the same approach with their EMT emulation as I had with Verberate. Impulse responses from "classical" digital reverb devices don't really resemble impulse responses from real acoustical spaces or plates and addressing that seemed like a good starting point.

Stian

[sounddesigner]

Thank you for the added info Stian! Interesting approach none-the-less.