help PingPong delay understanding and tuning

[baba_anubis]

hello

After a lot of time spent on understanding and finding other alternatives to CUBASE PING PONG DELAY, I decided to open this thread so I can finally understand this subject

Hopefully more users will get help from this question...

so what I am trying to do is the following:



I want the for example a short (1/16) Clap sound will be PingPong Delayed
1. No Modulations needed
2. note in the picture that every 1/4 Bar we here clap sound BUT althou both of them has the same intervals between 2 claps, the Right channel make sounds only after 1/2 BAR and not after 1/4 Bar as the Left Channel

at the moment I am trying to use this delay to make this effect
cant make it work yet here is the settings:



Here is the download link to this effect (Free and Small, was recommended to me on KVR forum):
http://karmafx.net/?id=1

I hope that you can try help me using this plugin so we all talk in the same language...

In case of someone Managed to make it happen with other plugin then H-DELAY (WAVES) or PING PONG Delay (Built in Cubase) it will be great if he can share Screenshot so we all inderstand how he made it

also another question can Streo Delay function as PingPong delay? I saw that its possible to define quantize for Left Right Channel, But couldnt make the Right channel starting its counting with 1/4 Delay after the Left channel

I hope you can help me and maybe other users to solve this issue

[Agreed]

Could you not automate the delay to turn on when you need it to? I can't quite figure out how to express it, but my intuition here is you're making a comparatively easy problem into something solved in a complex manner. Your problem, as I see it, is that you want the delay to start late. No issues with actual delay behavior once it starts, but it starts too soon for you. So... use the tools available to you to make it kick on a quarter of a bar late, and problem solved?

Or is this a simplified application note and your actual problem is much larger? Note that my DAW is REAPER and it has very easy and straightforward automation, it's probably the easiest DAW when it comes to plugins around, forgive me if I appear to be trivializing something due to simple ignorance of your preferred DAW's behavior in this regard.

[baba_anubis]

Could you not automate the delay to turn on when you need it to? I can't quite figure out how to express it, but my intuition here is you're making a comparatively easy problem into something solved in a complex manner. Your problem, as I see it, is that you want the delay to start late. No issues with actual delay behavior once it starts, but it starts too soon for you. So... use the tools available to you to make it kick on a quarter of a bar late, and problem solved?

Or is this a simplified application note and your actual problem is much larger? Note that my DAW is REAPER and it has very easy and straightforward automation, it's probably the easiest DAW when it comes to plugins around, forgive me if I appear to be trivializing something due to simple ignorance of your preferred DAW's behavior in this regard.

well its has nothing to do with the DAW, I explained exactly what I am trying to do, which is sound really simple

as I said I can`t figure out how to make the right channel start the effect with the delay so the left and right channel will cross the sound between each other

I want to use it as Sends effect so I need it from the plugin itself

it will be great if you can download the plugin i gave here, and try it your self, it will take you only a few minutes, and maybe then you will understand my problem better...

[PFozz]

You can probably achieve this by placing two instances of DeeLay in an 'aux return'.

Here is a first solution (some others exist but they may be more complex to setup in a non-modular DAW):


CLICK HERE TO ENLARGE

Otherwise, another solution would be to use a multi-tap delay featuring an extra "global" delay line (like EARebound)

[Frantz]

I tested the Karma delay. A single instance of it cannot do exactly what you are looking for.

[No_Use]

Can easily be done (if I understood the task correctly) with Bionic delay with these settings:



Ping Pong mode (button in the lower right) must be enabled.
I've set "MIX" to 100% here, for use as a send FX, so you don't hear the original inital sound through the delay.

Bionic delay:

http://www.interruptor.ch/vst_donationware.shtml

Note that it's not a "clean" delay though, but has a special kinda "retro" sound.
So if you're looking for a clean delay Bionic is probably not the right one.

[Tricky-Loops]

Why don't you simply use 2 channels (one panned hard left and the other hard right) with a sampler and program the clap rhythm with MIDI notes?

Would be much easier, I don't think that you need any delay to do this, except if you want to do it overcomplicated...

[fese]

so what I am trying to do is the following:



I want the for example a short (1/16) Clap sound will be PingPong Delayed
1. No Modulations needed
2. note in the picture that every 1/4 Bar we here clap sound BUT althou both of them has the same intervals between 2 claps, the Right channel make sounds only after 1/2 BAR and not after 1/4 Bar as the Left Channel

OK, maybe I am just stupid, but I am not sure I get your description. Where in the picture is your original sound, when does it occur? At the "0"?

[Agreed]

Why don't you simply use 2 channels (one panned hard left and the other hard right) with a sampler and program the clap rhythm with MIDI notes?

Would be much easier, I don't think that you need any delay to do this, except if you want to do it overcomplicated...

This is what I was getting at - it sounds like what he wants to do is much more easily accomplished any other number of ways, but he's looking for a particular solution that's unnecessarily difficult. He didn't explain why his use case was any more complicated than he described it, so I have to assume that it isn't. I don't know why he wants to go with the particular solution he's using when it seems so much easier to do other ways, but ...

Bionic Delay is a really good plugin, there's that, at least.

[Frantz]

Looking through my plugins, it is super-easy with Tone2 Warmverb (which is commercial):



I was unsuccessful in finding a free 64 bit Windows delay plugin that does this. lkjb PitchedDelay looks like it should do this and has some nice pitch shifting features as well. But the panning and ping pong controls don't work.

[Frantz]

Why don't you simply use 2 channels (one panned hard left and the other hard right) with a sampler and program the clap rhythm with MIDI notes?

Would be much easier, I don't think that you need any delay to do this, except if you want to do it overcomplicated...

I can assure you using a plugin that has this effect is much quicker than doing it manually. Warmverb also has "Ping Pong Filter" which includes a low pass filter in the feedback loop which would be harder to simulate with a sampler.

[Tricky-Loops]

Why don't you simply use 2 channels (one panned hard left and the other hard right) with a sampler and program the clap rhythm with MIDI notes?

Would be much easier, I don't think that you need any delay to do this, except if you want to do it overcomplicated...

I can assure you using a plugin that has this effect is much quicker than doing it manually. Warmverb also has "Ping Pong Filter" which includes a low pass filter in the feedback loop which would be harder to simulate with a sampler.

And where can you load the clap sample in Warmverb? You have to make a MIDI or audio track with the clap samples anyway, and then you have to put a delay onto them...

It's much easier to do it with 2 tracks or even simpler with one track + panning automation in this case!

[Frantz]

And where can you load the clap sample in Warmverb? You have to make a MIDI or audio track with the clap samples anyway, and then you have to put a delay onto them...

He is looking for a replacement for Cubase Ping Pong Delay which also does not have a built in clap sample.

Each ping pong echo descreases in volume so you would have to simulate that too with your approach.

If you want a ping pong delay on a synth that is constantly changing, using a single sample won't work.

[Tricky-Loops]

And where can you load the clap sample in Warmverb? You have to make a MIDI or audio track with the clap samples anyway, and then you have to put a delay onto them...

He is looking for a replacement for Cubase Ping Pong Delay which also does not have a built in clap sample.

Each ping pong echo descreases in volume so you would have to simulate that too with your approach.

If you want a ping pong delay on a synth that is constantly changing, using a single sample won't work.

He can use how many ping pong delays he want but to do this he doesn't need any delay at all:

so what I am trying to do is the following:



I want the for example a short (1/16) Clap sound will be PingPong Delayed
1. No Modulations needed
2. note in the picture that every 1/4 Bar we here clap sound BUT althou both of them has the same intervals between 2 claps, the Right channel make sounds only after 1/2 BAR and not after 1/4 Bar as the Left Channel

[rockstar_not]

To the OP: Please give a more complete description of what you are trying to accomplish with the following information:

1. what is the frequency of occurrence of the actual clap sound and is it in both left and right channels or is it in one channel only.
2. Describe how often you want delayed copies of the original signal in each channel.

Ping Pong delay takes a single input signal and puts the delayed copies in opposite, alternating channels. Bionic Delay does this easily.

So far, your description is a bit incomplete as to what you are looking for, but so far, I haven't really seen you describe a need for a ping pong delay, but more along the lines of simply different delays on left and right channel, which would be much better executed by sending your original signal to two different sends, and on the return for the two different sends, one panned hard left, the other panned hard right, set up a simple delay for what you want on each of those channels.