Really deep bass but still loud track -> Waves LoAir?

[Tricky-Loops]

The higher the order of the filter, the less natural it sounds...

Regarding LoAir, I'd rather use it for kicks than for the bass. I think the right sound design (i. e. synthesizer programming) is more important for a deep bass line than spicing it up (or better: down ) with LoAir...

[sin night]

In my opinion, it's a good idea to try using LoAir on a send, followed by a gate/expander. That way you can control the lenght of the synthetized sub and you can keep it short, so you can perceive an additional weight to the main sound but it doesn't make the sound (too much) muddy.
I think this approach works ok when I want to add weight to a kick but I want to keep it short (I like using short kicks, so there's space for other sounds between the hits, but I still want them to hit in the very bottom); when I use this technique, I usually start with a medium/short kick (sometimes I gate it to get the sound I want), then I set up the parallel chain with LoAir and gate it trying to keep it shorter than the main sound (I try not to make the new sound - original plus LoAir - to sound longer than the original, that's my goal).

Another thing I do sometimes, it's to let LoAir (re)synthetize the low-end (maybe with a touch of highpass in order to make room before using LoAir). This way I can concentrate on the character on the mid-low of the sound and then add a solid bottom. It works fine when I want deep bass with tight and clean mid-low, but I can't get both on a synth.

In both cases, moderation is the key, it's very easy to compromise the result by adding just a little bit too much of LoAir.


By the way, I'm making very little music right now and I use these tricks even less...

[Boone777]

Lowair is 29$ today anybody using this ? Can it do something special on it's own or can it be replaced easily with other techniques/tools ?

[sin night]

For drum enhancement, Metric Halo Thump could be an alternative (and it's free). But it doesn't track pitch afaik, so it can be used to add sub harmonics to a bass line.

You could double a bassline by playing a sine or a triangle one octave lower if you need more lowend, but I think LoAir sounds more coherent with the source material. It sounds more as a whole, in my opinion.

I think it's not an irreplaceable tool, if you're making electronic music you could get all the additional lowend you need by using a tool like MH Thump for drums (but I found it not so easy to use when I tried it) and by using a deep sounding synth for bass (or by layering patches).

Since I got a Minitaur, I don't use LoAir much anymore (maybe for the occasional kick, when it doesn't have much lowend to begin with), but for 29$ I'd still want it in my plugin folder.

[Boone777]

I do use a technique once in a while using a kick. I put an oscillator on an aux gated to open only when kick hits giving extra sub in the key of the song. Does Loair replace that routing somehow ? If yes then it can be usefull to me. Also I have a hand made funk bass that sounds great but when I use it for metal it lacks some low end can I cope with Loair ? Is it good on bass IYO ?

[MogwaiBoy]

Check out Clarisonix by Plug&Mix too. It doesn't generate sub-octaves but it really adds weight.

Lo-Air on special interests me too.

[Sim.Sky]

Refuse Lowender would be another option and very similar to LoAir since it does actually synthesize bass notes, too I believe.

[camsr]

Important to know what kind of speakers you are using to monitor. If the track is played with subwoofers does it sound too heavy? You may be over-amplifying the bass to compensate for a smaller speaker's natural low frequency rolloff. That would surely contribute to limiting problems.

[bitman]

The waves api 2500 has a detector filter so the detector won't respond to the bottom end as much.

Many other comps have a detector filter.

Try that.

[transmetropolitan]

I think using a single sinewave under the main bassline or kick can do the same job for nothing.

For kicks, gate a sinewave around 40hz (or where you want it) and trigger by sidechaining the main kick.

For basses a simple sinewave ghost part under the main bassline can often add the depth with the least artefacts/compromises elsewhere.

If I wanted more low end I'd try both of those before a psychoacoustic plug.

[incubus]

I have "lo air" and it's fine. But, you have to be REALLY careful how you use it. Low end can pump up the negative jams pretty easy.

[simon.a.billington]

Thanks guys.

That was also my impression of LoAir, that if you throw it onto the whole mix, you gain low end but you also lose the in your face feeling.

I will try Cosmos.

LowAir can help, but it depends on the context. If you have already too much in the way of sub information (60hz and below), then it won't be of much help. In many cases a tiny bit of 30-40hz can help a mix if it's lacking a little.

Hating and ducking other subsonic content can help too, that way the subs that you do add also gives you a bit of thump as well.

You can also mess with the upper-harmonics too in the way it gives the illusion of bottom end. I think this is what Cosmos can do, I haven't used it in a while, MaxxBass also does it as well. They are the only two that come to mind.

I find LoAir and MaxxBass can be complimentary of each other.

Oh as an added use, LoAir can be great on effects, especially those that can benefit from a low end boost, like explosions, gunshots and thunderstorm. So it's a handy tool for guys doing audio post-production.

[MogwaiBoy]

You can also mess with the upper-harmonics too in the way it gives the illusion of bottom end. I think this is what Cosmos can do, I haven't used it in a while, MaxxBass also does it as well. They are the only two that come to mind.

Another is SK_Bass by LSR Audio - it's a simple one-knob and in my opinion sounds better than Renaissance Bass, though less flexible obviously.

This is how they market SK_Bass:

Bass enhancer

SK_Bass gives body to your sound.

The lower part of your sound is compressed, slightly tube driven to add harmonics, then the fundamental is attenuated.

The lowest frequencies can now be heard on standard speakers without a sub.

I think it's a fantastic tool to have in the box.

[Boone777]

I can't install it. Waves Central....you make my life miserable. Having to re-enter all my login infos every f**king time. Normally after 2-3 times trying to install it shows up in Reaper after clearing cache and rescan but this time nope! I normally get all my Waves product to work after tedious fooling around Waves is supposed to be supoorting Reaper soon I do hope so. That's when you have full appreciation of a good old DLL file. Good thing I wanted to try the demo first.

Edit: For DEMO you need to go on their website and install via the plugin's page, why did I think that Waves Central could do this for me ? I figured it could be of some use to download and activate a plugin (oh wait that's what it does right ??) even for a short period of time like a DEMO ! Now I have to login on their website click on DEMO and then re-login in central to activate. Central is not that much centralized IMO.

[transmetropolitan]

The purpose of adding harmonics is the opposite of adding low end.

Adding harmonics to bass is about improving mix translation across a wide range of systems.

Adding stuff underneath the kick/bass is about increasing low end power on a big system or PA.

While these techniques are tried and true, my cynicism with these bass-specific plugs is that there is absolutely nothing that requires a bass-specific approach and almost everyone will already have plugins that can do the same job just as well. In a best case scenario maybe there's a small convenience factor.

Lastly a point that is worth reiterating... If you're working with synths, you are starting with a sound source that is predictable, consistent and controlled by you.

It's normally a better final result to spend a little longer programming a sound with the frequency curve you want at the outset than compressing, eqing, distorting and sub-bass generating at mix stage. Normally if I get into heavily processing something in mix it's a sign my arrangement decisions are a little off or my production vision for the track was muddy in composition.

Not saying don't process heavily - if you need to then do as much as the job requires. I just see a lot of people getting into uneccessary complexity and hurting their final product by feeling like they need to be "doing something" special. Doing as little as possible is normally best.

I've wondered off topic there, not a dig at anyone but thought it worth saying.