released: SlickHDR - Psychoaccoustic Dynamic Processor

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toothnclaw wrote:foobar2000 --> vst component --> Xlutop Chainer --> SlickHDR --> limiter

Use modest settings (in the green). Works best with great mixes. Over here, it gets 5-10 hours of use every day. Just this morning, I've been eargasming on good old Koxbox and Psychopod stuff.

What's wrong with you naysayers, are you f**king deaf???
:o

Why would you add all that extra processing to tracks that have already been mastered to the artist's satisfaction? I guess you'll say because it sounds better... :hihi:

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Nokenoku wrote:
bmanic wrote:Eh, so basically what you are saying?: "I explained why I think this plugin is bad yet other people disagree with me. I've decided that they are all wrong so they must all be lying."
No, what I said was, that I don't take opinions seriously, if people can't explain their opinion.
I think the only one, which actually gave a straight answer was Bronto Scorpio. From what he wrote, it sounds like he knows, what he's talking about. And he might actually make some targeted use of this plugin.



It's just that I have seen it way too often, that people praise something, which isn't special at all.
I remember how people raved about those Abbey Roads EQ plugins back in the days ... well turned out, those don't even have symmetrical curves. In fact they have the same curves like 99% of all freeware-EQs (and no saturation).
Still people we praising it without really knowing, what they're talking about. That is, what I meant with "not sincere".

And that is probably what Teksonik meant with "placebo".
It does not mean, the plugin does nothing. It means, that people think it's great because of its GUI and because it's from Bootsie, but not because the plugin is good.
Even if the plugin was good (which I say it isn't), most people praising it wouldn't praise it, because it's good.


Really, you might be annoyed by criticism of the "new free mega mojo plugin".
I am annoyed by unjustified hype.

But then again:
Have fun with this plugin. I don't want to take this away from you.
But if you are allowed to word your praised here, I am allowed to word my criticism.
EDIT: toned down my own hostility.. :lol:

Of course you are entitled to your opinion and so is Teksonik. As far as I'm concerned nobody is attacking you for that.. it's just that some of you here have been kind of hostile towards bootsie and people who like the plugins. Pretty much ridiculing people for THEIR opinion. Makes no sense to do that, right? After all we are discussing completely subjective things here.

It would make sense if the plugins were actually placebo but because they are not (like I said earlier you can easily check what the plugin does with a simple phase reverse test or using the VSTplugin Analyzer and it's nowhere near placebo) the ridiculing only causes hostility all around.
"Wisdom is wisdom, regardless of the idiot who said it." -an idiot

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I've knocked up another example using SlickHDR in a manner how I would use it within the context of a mix. Its a quick metal drum track, There are four instances of SlickHDR at work, First the dry drum kit mixdown without any form of other processing and the identical except for the instances of SlickHDR. I am not going to tell people what to listen for as it is plain obvious what it did/does in this example, It wasn't driven very hard either so I'm going to have fun driving it harder along with chaining multiple instances...etc. Anyway hear for yourself
https://app.box.com/s/pfq9gxtsejefawa0m3vg
The differences are even more magnified with a decent set of headphones but still very apparent on any decent set of monitors

All the best to all as always

Dean

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That is ever so subtle. And to be honest, such high octane program material makes it more difficult to judge.

Maybe a slower back beat?

I picked something up. Again, very very subtle presence type of thing.
So subtle it might have been placebo.

I would never put my ears up as good ones to judge.

All I know is I can hear stuff like from Density that other 'cloth ears' can not hear.

I'm really trusting your ears here.

There is a definite place for subtle stuff in Audio. I won't go into the how it's all free crap.

I think this is fascinating. Dean, thanks for taking the time.

Is there any chance that we might get a similar demo with it cut down to half time on the beats?


Still, thanks anyway.

Edit:
Btw, I was only listening on a mid-range pair of HPs so maybe that was why I couldn't pick up on the differences.

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It's pretty apparent actually.

The kick is more prominent in this example, the general mix is more (so called) glued together as well. I hardly call that "placebo" or "hard to hear".

It is subtle no doubt, but definitely noticable. And I listened at a very low volume on my Truth B2031A's.


Same with the demo by Bronto Scorpio (Page 14) - subtle, but definitely noticable.

The demos by Tp3 are non-accessable to me however. They do not want to play back in any form whatsoever.
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Compyfox wrote:It's pretty apparent actually.

The kick is more prominent in this example, the general mix is more (so called) glued together as well. I hardly call that "placebo" or "hard to hear".

It is subtle no doubt, but definitely noticable.
You might be right.

Do you think 8 bottles of Stout might have skewed my better judgement?

:hyper:

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It's your call - I usually don't drink anything other than hot chocolate, tea and still water.
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Compyfox wrote:It's your call - I usually don't drink anything other than hot chocolate, tea and still water.

Ah, I see it was foolish of me to ask in the first place.

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Anyone who can't hear what this is doing should take up underwater basket weaving and give up on anything requiring the awareness of sound.

Now, whether you like what it's doing, or have found a niche for it in your process is another issue entirely.

Placebo is a term for something that isn't doing anything, and if the unnamed person who chose to trot out that term really can't hear that this is doing anything, that unnamed person has some wet baskets to go tend to.

I think a better potshot term if one feels the need to use one is "panacea", and some might be eager to see this as that, just as there are always people who eagerly try out many other new plug-ins hoping for a panacea which never actually exists.

That's a ding to some of the users, and in some ways is a ding to some of Bootsie's voluntarily chosen hype, but it doesn't diminish the fact that this can be a serious and useful tool, and it is totally or at least mostly unique (I think LSR Dynamics Detail may do something similar).
"You don’t expect much beyond a gaping, misspelled void when you stare into the cold dark place that is Internet comments."

---Salon on internet trolls attacking Cleveland kidnapping victim Amanda Berry

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More noticeable on some stuff vs other too... so who thinks this is a placebo, keep trying it on different things and you'll be more likely to check out what this plug is actually doing.

Might be a time waste if you don't have decent monitors tho..

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3ee wrote:More noticeable on some stuff vs other too... so who thinks this is a placebo, keep trying it on different things and you'll be more likely to check out what this plug is actually doing.

Might be a time waste if you don't have decent monitors tho..
Either that or check it out in the first place before guffawing on internet forums that you know everyone else was the victim of a big gotcha.
"You don’t expect much beyond a gaping, misspelled void when you stare into the cold dark place that is Internet comments."

---Salon on internet trolls attacking Cleveland kidnapping victim Amanda Berry

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Compyfox wrote:It's your call - I usually don't drink anything other than hot chocolate, tea and still water.
Theobromine can really mess you up, especially if you are a dog. Theophylline is no picnic either. I stick strictly to H20 when evaluating plugins.
"I got a car battery and two jumper cables that argue different."
Rust Cohle

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Dean Aka Nekro wrote:I've knocked up another example using SlickHDR in a manner how I would use it within the context of a mix. Its a quick metal drum track, There are four instances of SlickHDR at work, First the dry drum kit mixdown without any form of other processing and the identical except for the instances of SlickHDR. I am not going to tell people what to listen for as it is plain obvious what it did/does in this example, It wasn't driven very hard either so I'm going to have fun driving it harder along with chaining multiple instances...etc. Anyway hear for yourself
https://app.box.com/s/pfq9gxtsejefawa0m3vg
The differences are even more magnified with a decent set of headphones but still very apparent on any decent set of monitors

All the best to all as always

Dean
Dean, you know I have nothing but respect for you going back a long ways to GAM and all that, but I think on this particular plugin we might end up disagreeing (NOT in an unfriendly dickhead way like that one guy who thinks everyone who likes it is a liar, lmao) - I've tried it on some material and I just don't really like what it does. I don't dig chaining instances to try to get some more out of it, either, or running it as inserts and also on the master... Seems like there's a lot to do to get it to do its thing, and while I don't have other plugins that do exactly what this does, I can live without it because the other plugins I prefer fit into my workflow much more smoothly and are, frankly, a little less "black box" in terms of understanding exactly what they're doing and how they're doing it.

But I'm glad that you're getting favorable results with it, always good to see an old friendly acquaintance posting about useful stuff here :) Have you checked out Klanghelm's SDRR? There's a mode in it that can do some really interesting stuff that isn't exactly like this but does offer a great combo of a little saturation, a little excitement, some easily controlled light compression and a frankly brilliant transformer and x-talk modeling system that's tight as can be. I think in fact that if I didn't have SDRR I might get more out of this plugin, maybe, haha. I would also suggest, if you haven't tried it, Voxengo's GlissEQ for very cool, very interesting dynamic behaviors that allow a lot of shaping and control while simultaneously giving you more than just a frequency curve. Many, many uses for that plugin, I find.

The one criticism I can fully understand is that this plugin's functionality and the novel features about it are not very well documented. The earlier comparison drawn to how BBE initially marketed their Sonic Maximizer is valid at least insofar as there's a "just use it, it uses psychoacoustic processing and will make things sound better and more lively with more depth and dynamic range!" that really reminds me of how BBE talked about their unit back in the day. Now we understand what THAT does pretty well, you can even get a nice replacement for the BBE IC in the form of a third-party daughterboard if you should ever need to work on one that's given up the electronics ghost but isn't outside the realm of saving. I do wish that there was more explanation of exactly what this thing is and what it's doing, especially I wish that there was more explanation of what sort of psychoacoustics model it's using and how exactly it is high dynamic range (since really I don't think comparisons to pictures make much sense, given how HDR is accomplished in photography...) - but of course Bootsie is perfectly free to give as much or as little explanation as he sees fit, and it is a free plugin, so my criticism is intended quite lightly and not as a mortal blow against this free software. I am one of the people who likes to know exactly what the thing I'm using is doing, it's just an important part of my workflow so that I can get predictable and repeatable results. That's just a "me" thing.

In any case, I repeat, much respect and glad you're enjoying this plugin. Peace, amigo :tu:

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Agreed wrote:
Dean, you know I have nothing but respect for you going back a long ways to GAM and all that, but I think on this particular plugin we might end up disagreeing (NOT in an unfriendly dickhead way like that one guy who thinks everyone who likes it is a liar, lmao) - I've tried it on some material and I just don't really like what it does.
...
...
Now that was a polite way expressing ones opinion. Good post! (even though I personally have a different view).

In his original post Bootsie said he would make a faq section based on discussion here. I wonder if he will come back anymore.

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Agreed wrote:I can live without it because the other plugins I prefer fit into my workflow much more smoothly and are, frankly, a little less "black box" in terms of understanding exactly what they're doing and how they're doing it....

...

The one criticism I can fully understand is that this plugin's functionality and the novel features about it are not very well documented...

...Now we understand what THAT does pretty well...

...

...I do wish that there was more explanation of exactly what this thing is and what it's doing, especially I wish that there was more explanation of what sort of psychoacoustics model it's using and how exactly it is high dynamic range (since really I don't think comparisons to pictures make much sense, given how HDR is accomplished in photography...)

...I am one of the people who likes to know exactly what the thing I'm using is doing, it's just an important part of my workflow
Ahh... welcome to the year 2Kxx :)

The notion that one HAS to understand how a piece of electronic gear works, in order to fully be satisfied with it.... (or to even use it !). and it really doesn't really matter if that notion is true (ie. one fully understand the technicalities behind it) or not (one THINKS that he understand, but in reality he doesn't)

False Economy and Mass Psychology at their best :D
Professional technicians are assessed by the abilities they possess.
Amateur technicians are assessed by the tools they possess - and the amount of those tools, with an obvious preference to the latest hyped ones.
(Gabe Dumbbell)

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