New T-RackS Master EQ 432 NOW AVAILABLE (full GUI pic inside)

[Peter - IK Multimedia]

The other thing is that since I downloaded the new version is now ALL the custom shop stuff shows up even if I haven't purchased it.

This has been done to facilitate having immediate and instantaneous access to any plug-in demo, for testing convenience in your sessions on the fly. This is similar to what some other major companies have done for years with success and without complaint from their user base.

[Peter - IK Multimedia]

I saw at the beginning of this thread that there was going to be a change to custom shop that would please some of the naysayers (myself included).

What was / is the improvement?

Summarized from http://www.ikmultimedia.com/trcs - 14-day trial period, purchasing with currency instead of credits, and the "singles" versions being installed directly instead of requiring additional steps in Custom Shop.

[AudioGuy720]

My point? IK Multimedia is no different from other companies when it comes to pricing.

While I appreciate your larger point, I'm not sure that is quite true. Have there ever been Valhalla or U-He sales? Not looking to pick a fight. I just don't recall any.

I don't own any of their plugins so I don't know about u-he. Valhalla plugins are so cheap they're always "on sale". Some companies do sales, others don't. Just like how you can't always find sales on certain brands at Guitar Center but others you can.

[Peter - IK Multimedia]

CompyFox - we publicized the reduction for those specific units from 120 to 100 credits at the time it happened and I see that now we've shown we didn't raise prices that even lowering them also causes dissatisfaction. I know you swore off of us in a previous post and while I'm sad to see you go, I understand that we're not doing the things you'd like to see us do to make you happy. I hope that things change where you can be satisfied with the products you do have from us (since long-time users typically see the benefit of having tools with which they can either recoup their financial investment in the purchase via earnings from projects where the products are used and/or they receive satisfaction in what they produce using the tools they've purchased to the point where they are happy with their purchase) or that we offer something of both quality AND value that you feel would drive you to make a purchase with which you can be satisfied. Until then, I think it may be best to "agree to disagree" and for me to understand that IK is not doing things that make you happy with what we offer.

[4tune]

The other thing is that since I downloaded the new version is now ALL the custom shop stuff shows up even if I haven't purchased it.

This has been done to facilitate having immediate and instantaneous access to any plug-in demo, for testing convenience in your sessions on the fly. This is similar to what some other major companies have done for years with success and without complaint from their user base.

If I can make a suggestion Peter. I think a smoother way to get this to work could be to have a checkbox next to the individual singles and have them all enabled by default. The user could then uncheck the plugs they do not wish installed for when they press `restore my gear`. The Custom Shop then remembers these preferences for the future.

I personally have plugs that are part of a bundle I bought which I don`t use and would like to just bypass the singles on the gear restore.

I know Waves also allows you to checkbox the plugs you want to test with their installer. Unfortunately I had problems with the Wavesshell before which put me off investing there.

[pheeleep]

Nomad factory also allows you to check/uncheck the plugins you want to install. +1 on making this possible for T-Racks plugins as well. I really don't like that all the demos get installed by default. This is not convenient, on the contrary it's inconvenient. It forces me to delete all the dll's I don't want from my VST folder.

[Peter - IK Multimedia]

It is convenient for some, not for others. There are others that install all by default as well, there are some that offer checkboxes. Your concerns have been forwarded (as have been any positive remarks we've received about it, especially that it doesn't specifically require people to go back to Custom Shop and do "Restore My Gear"). Thank you all for your input.

[kylen]

The other thing is that since I downloaded the new version is now ALL the custom shop stuff shows up even if I haven't purchased it.

This has been done to facilitate having immediate and instantaneous access to any plug-in demo, for testing convenience in your sessions on the fly. This is similar to what some other major companies have done for years with success and without complaint from their user base.

I noticed in ye Olde Custom Shoppe that some of the presets included chains of plugins I didn't have which allowed me to hear how said chain of plugins sounded in a demo environment but chained together with complimentary T-Rex presets.

I don't know if the new Custom Shop does this but I would assume so as it is a great Sales gimmick to tease the potential customer into hearing a bunch of shiny new sounds all at once...and we all know what happens when we hear new/louder sounds

[Compyfox]

Slate Digital plugins? I bought all of them when they first came out. All were $200 or more. You can now buy most of them for half the price. Early adopters always pay the most BUT we get to be first kid on the block to play with the new tools/toys.

My point? IK Multimedia is no different from other companies when it comes to pricing.

The analogy doesn't quite work here, sorry about that.

Slate Plugins cost 250USD all around, with regular prices at about 199USD, and way lower in sales or through other sources of course.

IKM on the other hand does something more drastic.
They intetionally (in my opion) overprice things, then rule out certain "sales" on the new stuff, and pretty much throw out the rest of their stock for mere pocket money every other month or so (figuratively).

This company does lower the value of their own tools constantly, and hid that in constant sales.


Companies like U-HE and Valhalla are not on sale (or barely) due to several things:
a) U-HE says "we don't need sales, sales only devalue our tools"
b) Valhalla plugins are already low priced (as mentioned)
c) their tools don't necessarily don't focus on emulations - but actual working tools, niche product. And such products don't need to be sold so that "everyone can access" them.


Of course I could get a 1080p 27" flatscreen for mere 200-250EUR these days compared to like 5-6 years ago with a pricetag of almost 1k. But... technology doesn't stand still either.

In this particular example however, there is more going on:
- prices that don't match
- a micro-transaction and "trading card" system which was forced upon us
- constant sales to begin with
- no suitable upgrade/crossgrade possibilities for longtime users

Big differences compared to what you wrote with the "value loss over time". I mean, at this point we don't even know how much "real work" is put into these plugins, and what the true income is for IKM. The sales are surely for getting a larger customer base, same with the freebies and bundle ware. But I think the biggest income does come from crazy marketing, overreading the fineprints, and the mobile market (else, IKM wouldn't be so agressive in that sector).


Even with a 14day demo (which was highly critisized), a "install separate plugins right from the start" (rather than online "activation" and then "extracting" form the rom - ditto in terms of critisizm), direct payments (demanded since day 1 of the Gear Credits) and a new EQ in the pool... there are still a lot of things that don't swing with me as longtime IKM user.

Then again... I made my point several times by now.

[yevster]

The other thing is that since I downloaded the new version is now ALL the custom shop stuff shows up even if I haven't purchased it.

This has been done to facilitate having immediate and instantaneous access to any plug-in demo, for testing convenience in your sessions on the fly. This is similar to what some other major companies have done for years with success and without complaint from their user base.

False. Waves does not install every plugin they make. NI provides separate installers for each of their products except those that are sold together. No offense, Peter, but this is a very scummy move.

[fese]

Frankly, I really don't understand those tirades against IKM. If you don't like the company or the products ot the way they sell stuff, don't buy them. OK, I am quite new to IKM, but so far I got good quality for very little money from them, I know they do many sales and i won't be buying new plugins for 100+€ from them knowing there will be sales, I guess many others do the same.
If they think they can keep their company running with that strategy, it is their decision, and so far they seem to succeed, according to wikipedia they have 70+ employes (I guess it must be more) and they exist since 1997 or so. You cannot pay that many people with the valhalla (1 "employee") or u-he (4-5 employees?) business model.
Granted, their marketing department seem to be constantly on amphetamines...
And for really overpriced plugins, you gotta go Universal Audio!

[zyzygis]

[quote="yevster"][quote="Peter - IK Multimedia"][quote="hibidy"]The other thing is that since I downloaded the new version is now ALL the custom shop stuff shows up even if I haven't purchased it.[/quote]
This has been done to facilitate having immediate and instantaneous access to any plug-in demo, for testing convenience in your sessions on the fly. This is similar to what some other major companies have done for years with success and without complaint from their user base.[/quote]

False. Waves does not install every plugin they make. NI provides separate installers for each of their products except those that are sold together. No offense, Peter, but this is a very scummy move.[/quote]
I agree, this is an unasked for feature which is annoying and intrusive!

[Peter - IK Multimedia]

@yevster and zyzygis: I never pointed out specifically those, but there are those who do. Please don't put words in my mouth, we know that there are others that do the same thing but not surprising that they do not catch fire for it here on KVR. It is not scummy or with bad intent, it is done by others (likely for the same reason I stated already), and I appreciate that you may find it annoying and intrusive but that is not the opinion of every user or every company. Thank you, I've stated this as clearly as I can so I'll allow you to argue the point amongst yourselves if you must, and have already forwarded your concerns.

[Agreed]

What can Peter do except let developers and businessmen know what users on the forum think? Is it just fun to yell at the community rep when somebody doesn't think a thing is entirely fair?... I don't get it. He's just doing his job. He can't change the things you don't like about their business practices, all he can do is make sure you're heard, and after that it's up to people who don't come here and talk to make decisions. Why the negativity toward the guy who speaks for you? ... That's unfortunate, and kinda weird.

[zyzygis]

I want to make it clear that I have no negativity towards Peter whatsoever, and I sincerely applogise if anything I have said has appeared that way, on the contrary, I fully appreciate the work he does representing the company and the customers. I am always grateful to Peter for forwarding my complaints and suggestions to the company and hope that they will listen to a reasonable request to allow greater choice in this matter.
IK are mistaken if they think that everyone is going to be happy with this, it would serve them better to give the customer the choice to install what they choose, why risk alienating any of your customers, when a simple solution will make them all happier?