Waves Abbey Road Reel ADT

[Breeze]

Why am I smirking about this post?

Don't know... must be something about "technical description" and "debunking".

Sorry if I sounded annoyed... I probably was! I took a look at the manual and it seems they made an effort to explain it without actually making it clear. It's no mystery what ADT actually is! While it can be emulated in a subhost (sounds really nice using Satin!), it's nicely presented, packaged and functional as a plugin. I have no doubt many will find it useful. For the word-weary, this is in essence what it does:

[Compyfox]

In essence, yes. And if that's your desctiption, it's actually accurate.
Though I think the connection from the main deck to the ADT deck is a bit misleading at first sight.

In this particular example, you present a "realtime recording" scheme here. The REC/SYNC of the Main Deck get's a parallel connection to the REC/SYNC head of the ADT deck. This way the signal is being treated in "realtime".

In terms of playback however, the signal goes from the "playback" channel (Main deck) to the ADT recording (REC/SYNC) and then from Playback of the ADT deck, back on to a new channel of the Main Deck.

Same concept really, just different connected for the particular purpose.


Still the vari-speed however must be a "variable head offset". Since the head positions are usually fixed, which declares at which time position the delay is. Just with the concept of the old Roland Space Echo. Only that we don't have an infinite loop with the ADT machine. And with a tape delay like the Space Echo, the speed then declares the delay time, while the "delay position" (dotted and half notes, or trippled and half notes) remains the same according to the position of the heads.


Still, this technique is possible with any delay on the market, that can work between 1ms and 35ms (timeframe), and the speed (delay time) can "wobble" with an LFO.

There is no need to overcomplicate things...





Er... wait a minute.

[frankvg]

Still, this technique is possible with any delay on the market, that can work between 1ms and 35ms (timeframe), and the speed (delay time) can "wobble" with an LFO

For varispeed you need to be able to 'wobble' the pitch as well, so can't be done with only a delay. Or am I mistaken?

[Compyfox]

A "wobbling sound" is indeed a slightly pitched stream.

Granted, plain digital delays that can only modulate the delay time wouldn't be as accurate. But seriously? We're talking about 35ms max, and unless the tape is ultra worn out and the capstan beyond repair... this can be done (IMO!) with most modern equipment.

[djanthonyw]

This and MetaFilter seem to use an excessive amount of CPU.

[Breeze]

In this particular example, you present a "realtime recording" scheme here. The REC/SYNC of the Main Deck get's a parallel connection to the REC/SYNC head of the ADT deck. This way the signal is being treated in "realtime".

In terms of playback however, the signal goes from the "playback" channel (Main deck) to the ADT recording (REC/SYNC) and then from Playback of the ADT deck, back on to a new channel of the Main Deck.

Same concept really, just different connected for the particular purpose.

***Revised!: Actually, your "alternate" wiring won't work at all. It'll end up delaying the signal twice: once by the time between the ADT Rec and Play heads, and again between the Rec and Play heads on the main deck. You'll end up with the ADT signal recorded way in advance of the Main signal. If the rec-play gap creates a 20ms delay, then you'd be recording the "ADT" track 40ms in advance of the main signal on the main deck.

Still the vari-speed however must be a "variable head offset". Since the head positions are usually fixed, which declares at which time position the delay is. Just with the concept of the old Roland Space Echo. Only that we don't have an infinite loop with the ADT machine. And with a tape delay like the Space Echo, the speed then declares the delay time, while the "delay position" (dotted and half notes, or trippled and half notes) remains the same according to the position of the heads.

AFAIK, classic ADT relies on the identical distance between rec/sync and play heads on two machines to establish "time 0" or the point in time where the two signals are in sync, and only involves changing the speed of the ADT deck, which alters time as an offset (forward AND back) and pitch as the tape speed increases and slows down, like it does in flanging. However I'm sure many variations of the basic idea have been used in different ways over the years.

[hibidy]

They couldn't reproduce it

Oh well, I'm not getting it anyways.

[Compyfox]

In this particular example, you present a "realtime recording" scheme here. The REC/SYNC of the Main Deck get's a parallel connection to the REC/SYNC head of the ADT deck. This way the signal is being treated in "realtime".

In terms of playback however, the signal goes from the "playback" channel (Main deck) to the ADT recording (REC/SYNC) and then from Playback of the ADT deck, back on to a new channel of the Main Deck.

Same concept really, just different connected for the particular purpose.

***Revised!: Actually, your "alternate" wiring won't work at all. It'll end up delaying the signal twice: once by the time between the ADT Rec and Play heads, and again between the Rec and Play heads on the main deck. You'll end up with the ADT signal recorded way in advance of the Main signal. If the rec-play gap creates a 20ms delay, then you'd be recording the "ADT" track 40ms in advance of the main signal on the main deck.

You're definitely right in terms of realtime usage with true tape return. Here the alternate wiring wouldn't make sense. A parallel recording would do the trick.

In terms of playback, I still think like using a tape delay with fixed heads (again, think Roland Space Echo). The "playback" (tape out) of Machine 1 is sent through the mixing desk, then to the ADT machine (Machine 2, tape in).

So far so good. The signal that is played back, is then recorded on the ADT machine, and then played back from the playback head of Machine 2 with the fixed delay due to the head position. Again, so far so good.

Where it's getting problematic indeed, is the routing back to machine 1. What you pretty much summed up. Obviously (and here you're right) you get an additional delay on true tape return (rec head -> playback head => true tape return). So that channel needs to be muted while creating the ADT take in true tape return playback.

If you now rewind Machine 1 and restart the playback - everything should be in sync again. Theoretically at least. DAWs these days work different.

AFAIK, classic ADT relies on the identical distance between rec/sync and play heads on two machines to establish "time 0" or the point in time where the two signals are in sync, and only involves changing the speed of the ADT deck, which alters time as an offset (forward AND back) and pitch as the tape speed increases and slows down, like it does in flanging. However I'm sure many variations of the basic idea have been used in different ways over the years.

Indeed you're right. That was the basic concept.

The pitching does come from either speed up or slow down of the motor. And from damaged tape, the machine being in a bad shape, etc. It's actually "wow and flutter", but it can be called "wobbling/droning" in this case (in German, it was nicknamed "eiern" [colloquial]). The actual slight wow&flutter (modulation of the tape machine speed) results due to the tape sticking to or slipping through the capstan. And here, the pitching is very minimal. Unless, again, the machine is in bad shape, or somebody is messing with it on purpose.


So once more... any digital delay that can modulate at least the delay with an LFO (and drift by +/-1m to 3ms), can already create outstanding ADT effects.

In our example, we actually do talk about a flanging effect - if we remain below 10ms, incl. nasty phase cancelation (comb filterin). But since the delay time is between 10-40ms, we'd actually create a "doubler" (aka "slapback delay"). Or, if additionally pitch shifted, a chorus.


It's funny what can be created with just a plain delay and maybe an additionally connected pitch shifter. So it does pay off, to know what basic FX modules do on the long run.

*cough* Alright, alright... slamming the brakes now. Don't worry.





BTW:
I just saw this...
http://www.uaudio.com/blog/cooper-time-cube-power/

Obviously a different approach to ADT - it is a fixed distance recording. In this case through a garden hose (tubing), with a speaker driver on one end, and a pickup at the other. The sound is forced through that tubing, and the distance traveled from the driver to the pickup is the actual delay.

Of course this is heat dependant, since the traveling speed of audio waves change at different room teperatures. I think this is why this unit was shipped with packing peanuts (which worked as heat insulation).


Interesting concept which was (so far) not known to me. And actually also what the sound designer did similary with John Rhys Davies while he spoke the lines for Treebeard in The Lord of the Rings (though primarily that "wooden canal" was made to create a specific sound rather than an ADT effect).

[Doc Brown]

Looks cool and all but I've been using Schwa's CMX and it works fantastic for cheap.

[Compyfox]

Isn't Schwa's CMX basically a static chorus on the lines of the Eventide (actually thin lines of doubler and chorus)? However, only without the modulation of the LP and delay time.

Haven't used CMX in quite a while now.

[zyzygis]

Interested in trying this, but I am still using Snow Leopard here, anyone know if this plugin is compatable?

[ObsoleteAcc99]

Maybe. But it's really hard to test with so much latency. If you can't do anything about it, so be it. I just thought I'd bring it up since there is an obvious issue with live that needs to be addressed.

besides waves doubler (and i think maybe the other freebie mentioned but i can't remember), all doubling plugins i have ever used add serious latency - nectar, schwah, antares, etc. I only use these on mixing, which imo is what they were designed for anyway.

Personally, i think the doubling itself on the vocal track in the 30 min video demo sounds superb and easily the best so far of any doubler (and far superior to the freebie mentioned many times in this topic).

To me this is something i'd use on a daily basis, so, a no brainer. Cheers for the thread and heads up that this exists

(in fact, besides syncro arts which is 5x the price, i think this is the best i heard so far).

[4damind]

It sounds very good and a bit different compared to Waves Doubler.
I played a bit with some parameters and automated it. It starts with dry, later moved from mono to the generated stereo (100% wide) and with some variations for the varispeed. At the end some bars with other sounds and a delay after the ADT.

Frank Arnold - Reel ADT.mp3

[zyzygis]

[quote="zyzygis"]Interested in trying this, but I am still using Snow Leopard here, anyone know if this plugin is compatable?[/quote]
Yes, it works perfectly in Snow Leopard. Just in case anyone else out there is still on that cold, lonely mountain of long ago.