KVR Audio

DamienStaab · Post by **DamienStaab** » Fri Jul 11, 2014 7:26 pm

Acon reverb and valhalla, I stay out of convolution, maybe altiverb for convolution, also oxford reverb is nice sometimes it has strong early reflections, grat for rooms.

Eddie TX · Post by **Eddie TX** » Fri Jul 11, 2014 7:33 pm

valhallasound wrote: Similar idea, but different execution. The Nonlin2 mode seems to be a LOT simpler than what I am doing with the VintageVerb Nonlin algorithm. RMX16 Nonlin2 is also mono-in, stereo-out, while the VintageVerb version maintains a true stereo path. The VintageVerb Nonlin can get gated sounds like Nonlin2, as well as reverse and truncated reverbs. I really like the truncated reverbs with a short Size setting for adding "air" to a sound.

This isn't to say that the VintageVerb version is better than the RMX16 Nonlin2. Just different. The Nonlin2 algorithm can get pretty grainy, but this can also add a lot of excitement to a snare drum or an overhead mike.

Sean Costello

Thanks for your reply ... sounds like it will be fun to play with. If it's possible to get the new VVV to sound like that Nonlin2, it'll certainly get a lot of use here!

Cheers,
Eddie

hibidy · Post by **hibidy** » Fri Jul 11, 2014 7:36 pm

DamienStaab wrote:Acon reverb and valhalla, I stay out of convolution, maybe altiverb for convolution, also oxford reverb is nice sometimes it has strong early reflections, grat for rooms.

Curious, because I've heard people say this, why "stay away" from convo verbs?

jancivil · Post by **jancivil** » Fri Jul 11, 2014 7:49 pm

hibidy wrote:
Funkybot's Evil Twin wrote:What are you looking for in verbs?
I think "realistic" is probably as good a description as any.
But I think I've found what I'm looking for. Hofa IQ verb. It's just a matter of some more testing, getting into contact with them over a couple of niggles, and getting the best price.

Of everything mentioned here, I would go with the Hofa. I'm interested in realism. I think the list price isn't high. I use VSL Hybrid Reverb, which is convolution with algo tails. But it's one of 11 plugins in Vienna Suite. Albeit one of those is VSL Convolution Reverb.

hibidy · Post by **hibidy** » Fri Jul 11, 2014 7:56 pm

BTW, are you happy with that one?

jancivil · Post by **jancivil** » Fri Jul 11, 2014 8:24 pm

Deliriously so. I have anything from realistic to some really trippy things. So in terms of 'for all jobs', this kind of thing. I don't have any real use for 'vintage' Lexicon emus type.

The slapbacks there can be moved around by automation. I like these kinds of instances sent from the 'hall' which most things go to, and a bus with a plate. Since they came out with this I've gone wetter and wetter because the sound is so fantastic. I used to be real shy of reverb.

One of the really great things is this setting for the late reflections 'X-Fade': at 100% it's complely diffuse, at 0% the effect is that the reflections are completely localized to where I have focused the origin (through power-panning).

jancivil · Post by **jancivil** » Fri Jul 11, 2014 8:26 pm

But, this can't be 0 latency, that effect is going to be wambly in Ableton.

hibidy · Post by **hibidy** » Fri Jul 11, 2014 8:29 pm

Well, I did ask for best reverb regardless of price

hibidy · Post by **hibidy** » Fri Jul 11, 2014 8:30 pm

jancivil wrote:But, this can't be 0 latency, that effect is going to be wambly in Ableton.

The Hofa is good so far. I keep thinking it's gonna rear it's ugly head though.

valhallasound · Post by **valhallasound** » Fri Jul 11, 2014 8:52 pm

hibidy wrote:
DamienStaab wrote:Acon reverb and valhalla, I stay out of convolution, maybe altiverb for convolution, also oxford reverb is nice sometimes it has strong early reflections, grat for rooms.
Curious, because I've heard people say this, why "stay away" from convo verbs?

There are several reasons that have been put forward, some of which I am probably guilty of putting forward:

- Static sound. For big, long ambient decays, a convolution impulse can sound static and cold. Meanwhile, a modulated reverb will add a lot of complexity to a simple synth sound.

- CPU usage. In the past, the CPU cost of convolution reverbs was considerably higher than the algorithmic reverbs of the time. However, algorithmic reverbs have gotten better and more complicated over time, so the CPU of these has gone up. Modern Intel processors have SIMD that makes FFTs really cheap, so convolution can be fairly efficient on modern computers. The cost of a convolution reverb goes up with the impulse length, so algorithms still have the advantage for huge reverbs.

- Lack of real-time adjustment. An impulse is fixed. If you want to adjust the decay length or damping, you either need to choose a new impulse, or the plugin needs to recompute the impulse with the new parameters.

- Barry Blesser has written about how large acoustic spaces are essentially time variant, due to variations in air temperature causing speed of sound changes. The upshot is that a reverb impulse will not be a realistic "snapshot" of the room, as the high frequencies will be "averaged" which causes a loss of treble. Of course, an algorithmic reverb starts out as 100% fake, so the realism argument doesn't really support algorithmic reverbs.

Personally, I feel that convolution does a great job with short rooms, and can capture time-invariant artificial reverbs (i.e. plates and springs) fairly well. I also think that convolution is an amazing tool for creative sound design, as any sample can be used as the convolution impulse. In my opinion, algorithmic reverbs have the lead in big, lush reverbs, as used for ambient and electronic music. Convolution is more "realistic," but algorithmic reverbs can be more flattering to an input signal.

Sean Costello

antithesist · Post by **antithesist** » Fri Jul 11, 2014 8:55 pm

You know reverberation is a winter sport, right?

I'm still diggin' SSL Duende X-Verb the most, but I love our Valhalla, Exponential, Relab and Lexicon, too.

EW Spaces for convolution, maybe? (though I guess that's a fixed library of IRs)

HOFA looks interesting... I have some of their DDP tools, though I'm not in that line of work much anymore (they just added ISRC for WAV, which is cool).

Good luck!

Oh, thanks for mentioning Open Air... hadn't checked that out yet, even though I have it.

hibidy · Post by **hibidy** » Fri Jul 11, 2014 9:00 pm

@Sean:

Interesting.

For me I'm simple. It either sounds good or it doesn't. I don't know that I'm experienced enough to pick out some of the finer details. I guess that would be translated as "then live with what you have" but a led to b and a small can of worms was opened.

hibidy · Post by **hibidy** » Fri Jul 11, 2014 9:02 pm

antithesist wrote:You know reverberation is a winter sport, right?

I'm still diggin' SSL Duende X-Verb the most, but I love our Valhalla, Exponential, Relab and Lexicon, too.

EW Spaces for convolution, maybe? (though I guess that's a fixed library of IRs)

HOFA looks interesting... I have some of their DDP tools, though I'm not in that line of work much anymore (they just added ISRC for WAV, which is cool).

Good luck!

Oh, thanks for mentioning Open Air... hadn't checked that out yet, even though I have it.

That would be summer sport here

I'll be curious to know if you have any thoughts on open air. I may just have lost the plot completely

robertszalapski · Post by **robertszalapski** » Fri Jul 11, 2014 9:14 pm

I stay away from convolution because I had trouble mixing with it, then bought ValhallaRoom and found it much easier to work with.

hibidy · Post by **hibidy** » Fri Jul 11, 2014 9:30 pm

Hmmmmmmmmmm. Well, thanks for the answers.

Best reverb, for all jobs? (ongoing process)