KVR Audio

stevemac · Post by **stevemac** » Thu Jul 10, 2014 2:40 pm

Doing a revamp of my send FX and looking to put some purpose / thought into my delay game. I have 3 reverb sends that I know really well and use good effect when mixing my tracks, but I don't really use a lot of delay (at least never with a lot of confidence / deliberate actions). Time to change that I think, I know I'm missing out on a huge area that many people obsess about!

So as a nice starter, looking for some good advice around delay send techniques / common settings / uses etc.

Any collective wisdom much appreciated

Cheers

bbaggins · Post by **bbaggins** » Thu Jul 10, 2014 3:30 pm

My favorite gimmick (before I got Timeless2, which can do it by itself) was to insert a compressor in front of the delay and use its sidechain input for ducking the effect. This lets you lay the delay on pretty thick before it starts obfuscating vocal lyrics.

Another neat trick is combining delay and reverb on the same bus, with the delay in front and 100% wet. Think of it as an alternative to the reverb's predelay setting but with additional reverb chaos possibilities.

Subtle delays can really fatten up a vocal. They can be quite long, up to a measure in some cases. Just keep them low in volume, and use the ducking trick if necessary. For rock vocals, consider using delay alone, as a substitute for reverb.

One more tip: don't assume that tempo-sync is always best. Always try dialing in the delay time by ear, especially when it's used as an up-front effect. Non-synced delays are especially good for guitars, lead instruments and pads - anything non-percussive.

Turello · Post by **Turello** » Thu Jul 10, 2014 3:40 pm

For creative delays I usually works with the freeware "VST Zone Amplio 2" and "Homegrown Sounds SoundScaper 2" that are very smart...

As for advice, the only advice I can give is to hear and feel the rhythmic breathing of the song instead of using always the tempo Sync...

Irony: Using the delay is the only way we have to play with an entity that plays with us: TIME!

Good Luck and greetings from Sick-cily!!!

thecontrolcentre · Post by **thecontrolcentre** » Thu Jul 10, 2014 3:44 pm

Put a send on the delay return track and send it back to the delay for feedback fun ... but use only a little and carefully.

Sendy · Post by **Sendy** » Thu Jul 10, 2014 3:47 pm

I usually highpass the delay signal. Just enough so that it isn't really noticed but it stops the mud from multiplying. Once you've done that, you can automate the cutoff and play subtle tricks on the listener as the song progresses. Lowpassing can also help to warm the sound up.

Run the post-delay signal into something radical that responds to volume and summing, like a bit crusher. That's texture right there! Then dial it back until it barely notices, which takes it from texture to character.

stevemac · Post by **stevemac** » Fri Jul 11, 2014 9:04 am

Thanks guys,

I already have a fairly wide bandpass filter on all of my delays and reverbs, definitely helps to tame any potentially troublesome muddiness!

Recently watched one of the Future Music studio vids with Stefano Ritteri (great dude) and I really loved his approach to his beloved sends - make the track, do 90% of the mixing, then listen through the track a bunch of times, focusing on one element on each listen whilst manually automating various subtle (and not subtle) delays. Basically, just like a dub producer might do. Something about this approach really appeals to me and let's the track subtly move over time.

I like the idea a couple people have mentioned about some really weird FX or distortions after a delay and experimenting with what that can bring to a track.

I have 2 main projects that I focus on, one being house/techno and the other more indie dance/nu disco so this could be really applicable and spice up some tracks

zeep · Post by **zeep** » Sat Jul 12, 2014 12:14 am

Find a good multitap delay and go from there. You can make i.e. nice rhythmic delays, very good to Send -anything- to.

michael2 · Post by **michael2** » Sat Jul 12, 2014 2:29 am

watching this thread for cool new ideas.

what about the old Kraftwerk trick where they would put the reverb on the vocal and cut it off immediately as the vocal line would end. they did it a lot. and you can hear the effect on Fischerspooners cover of "the 15th."

Kaboom75 · Post by **Kaboom75** » Mon Jul 14, 2014 1:35 am

I like to add Soundtoys Radiator or Slate FG-MU after or before the delay or reverb on a send for some tube saturation and also boost the gain with them. It just sounds more interesting to me and sometimes I want the reverb or delay louder.

For synthesizers I prefair the delay on the synth insert because delays are part of the synths sound and it sounds better I always test both ways with a new sound though.

elxsound · Post by **elxsound** » Mon Jul 14, 2014 2:22 am

stevemac wrote:Thanks guys,

I already have a fairly wide bandpass filter on all of my delays and reverbs, definitely helps to tame any potentially troublesome muddiness!

Recently watched one of the Future Music studio vids with Stefano Ritteri (great dude) and I really loved his approach to his beloved sends - make the track, do 90% of the mixing, then listen through the track a bunch of times, focusing on one element on each listen whilst manually automating various subtle (and not subtle) delays. Basically, just like a dub producer might do. Something about this approach really appeals to me and let's the track subtly move over time.

I like the idea a couple people have mentioned about some really weird FX or distortions after a delay and experimenting with what that can bring to a track.

I have 2 main projects that I focus on, one being house/techno and the other more indie dance/nu disco so this could be really applicable and spice up some tracks

I saw a couple other setups that have made me rethink my own workflow when it comes to delay send/returns. For my normal template, I have separate room and hall returns. I have a subtle delay track which is a favorite setting of mine that I love to run in combo with reverb. Then based on what I've seen I started using 3 more default send/returns for dotted dub style delays (16th, 8th and 4th). By default I have it set to dotted mode, but will switch to triplet or straight time as needed.

I could easily have another return for creative delay effects, because recording the manipulated return can yield some useful results, but I don't have anything setup by default because for creative usage, which delay plugin I use can change (and I use Timeless 2, Bloom, Ohmboyz, Guitar Rig, Live's Delays, Reaktor delays and I'm sure there's more than this, but that's all I can remember so far). Setting up feedback loops between returns is also nice on top of this (which thecontrolcenter mentioned too).

Anyway, If you're looking for a new method for you, I would just focus on streamlining your habits into a template. For me, before I added the new returns for the dub style delays I would end up creating them at some point in the process so it seems simple enough to just always have them available. Having them setup at 16th, 8th and 4th covers my initial needs enough and of course I tweak as needed.

Touch The Universe · Post by **Touch The Universe** » Mon Jul 14, 2014 3:14 am

I really like the Orion Daws internal xdelay plugin and want to find something similar to use in other host. It goes by delay time 1 through 16, and most other delays always use the 1/4, 1/4 T, 1/4 D, settings etc. what would the corresponding values of say a 3 and 5 be using dotted or whatever "T" stands for values where 1 is assume 1/16 and 16/16 equals one bar? It uses a stereo effect where you can choose two values panned hard right and hard left?

delay.png

Edit,, Seems like Karma Fx Deelay is a good substitute

codec_spurt · Post by **codec_spurt** » Mon Jul 14, 2014 3:22 am

I put Panstation after the Delay sometimes at the end of the send chain.

You can use it creatively by going mad with the delay and then using Panstation to chop up the beats, using it as a gate. It is an incredible gate effect. See some of my presets that I made up for it for this purpose. They are here on KVR.

You can use it surgically by just cutting off the tails of the delay. Again using its gating ability.

You can use it to tighten up a delay that has an interesting swing to it, but just overlaps a bit too messily.

You can use the panning function on it as well, which just gives amazing depth and feel and stereo spread. You can use a combination of both. There is hardly any delay effect that you can come up with that is not enhanced in some way by putting Panstation after it.

But you could use any panning effect or gating effect of course, though it wouldn't have the elegance and flexibility all in one VST. At least I haven't found one that does this as well for what I want.

I've just installed MMultibandTremelo and will probably use that as well at the end of the chain to similar effect. I use the MMultibandDelay and you can really carve out the sonic spectrum where it hits the most. So I'll be able to just Tremelo the mid range say without muddying up the low end or having the confusion of the highs going at it as well. A nice compliment.

I have RP Delay which is just absolutely insane and I could probably just do it all from there, but I tend to get a crazy effect with that first, and then carve out with the tools I've mentioned to tame it down or even change its whole rhythm.

That kind of thing.

Panstation really is my top effect for just giving that extra polish and sheen and tightening, that makes the difference between something knocked up and sonic architecture.

codec_spurt · Post by **codec_spurt** » Mon Jul 14, 2014 3:27 am

--------------------
Panstation is, without question, the most sophisticated autopanner plug-in available. We started with a loose model of the venerable Drawmer M500's panning engine, then added the counting features from the Audio & Design PanScan (probably the most famous vintage autopanner, and the "secret weapon" of many well-known producers.) The result is an autopanner plug-in that is second to none in both feature set and sound.
----------------

http://www.audiodamage.com/effects/prod ... ?pid=AD028

Delays can get messy quickly depending on how hard you push them. Sometimes, often times you just want to reign them in a bit or just tidy them up to give a bit of space back to the mix. You could do all that faffing with ducking and sidechaining, and sometimes you have to, but this is without doubt the quickest fix for most things.

elxsound · Post by **elxsound** » Mon Jul 14, 2014 3:38 am

mysticvibes wrote:I really like the Orion Daws internal xdelay plugin and want to find something similar to use in other host. It goes by delay time 1 through 16, and most other delays always use the 1/4, 1/4 T, 1/4 D, settings etc. what would the corresponding values of say a 3 and 5 be using dotted or whatever "T" stands for values where 1 is assume 1/16 and 16/16 equals one bar? It uses a stereo effect where you can choose two values panned hard right and hard left?

delay.png

T should stand for Triplet. I'm not familiar with xdelay at all so hard to say what the corresponding values would be, but I'm curious to know now too.

codec_spurt · Post by **codec_spurt** » Mon Jul 14, 2014 3:41 am

An example of what i'm using it for right now, coincidentally:

No Panstation -

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/860 ... tation.mp3

With Panstation -

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/860 ... tation.mp3

The effect is subtle, yet not so subtle at all. This is what I mean, it just gives that edge of extra quality, and ooh, I don't know, dare I say 'shimmer'?

This is just with Panstation on two tracks - one the mid range rhythmic lead and the other the higher background melody. They both have a bit of delay already on them, but it sounds quite average - nothing wrong with it, but when you put the Panstation after it, it not only helps to rhythmically tighten it up, but it widens the stereo image.

Delay sends: techniques / uses / suggested settings