KVR Audio

JJ_Jettflow · Post by **JJ_Jettflow** » Mon Jul 27, 2015 9:27 pm

HcDoom wrote:
JJ_Jettflow wrote: No more stupid than supporting a dev that is clearing overcharging for license transfers.
Overcharging...? Haha, you´re so dumb...

Yes, yes. I'm so dumb and you are so smart because...er...uh..can you tell me again why you are so smart?

Compyfox · Post by **Compyfox** » Mon Jul 27, 2015 10:13 pm

murnau wrote:Maybe you read OP first?

Yes, I have - and I shook my head to this and the following posts

murnau wrote:Your conclusions whats going on here and whatever motivation is behind is not applicable to say at least. Look who's talking.

Oh, we're going down that lane again? Well this didn't take long now, did it?

Again - you posted BOTH versions of the posted text on Jeroen's company page. The OP (original poster) of this thread was very confused, annoyed and ticked off by the fact that it was "10EUR" especially as each plugin or even suite is "20EUR". The OP did not mention anything about "10EUR per license" (I read the post again), that got brought up as part of the general discussion (and to be honest, I'm too lazy to dig through 11 pages of blurb to find the post). Actually... this wasn't even brought up on page 1 - it was just "assumed" that this is the case, because it was written (on the page) in singular, rather than plural.

So yes, "look"... who is talking, and especially what.

Skorpius wrote:Exactly my opinion. Escpecially since Jeroen is known to often turn up in TB-related threads. I'm pretty sure he has thoroughly read this thread and, due to the complaints of many users and their argumentation, has understood that his initial idea of charging 10 € per plug-in transfer wasn't the best of his ideas.

Skorpius wrote:Exactly. It was 10 € per transfer, as was mentioned in the original posting.

Unless you changed the initial post (as you are the OP after all), there was no mention of "charging 10EUR per plugin"!

Actually, you wrote:

Skorpius wrote:After I had sold a TB plug-in recently, Jeroen informed me that TB have introduced (or are about to do so) "a formal procedure for license transfers via our website".

>snip<

...Asking for a transfer fee of 10 EUR when the plug-ins cost 20 EUR even goes beyond the transfer charges of FXpansion. ...

To make this clear once again: In the future, TB will charge 50 % of the purchase price for a license transfer.

>snip<

Anyway, the question to me is whether such a policy should be supported. Once you have bought a TB plug-in for 20 EUR, you will either have to keep it for the rest of your life, even if you no longer need it, or give it away for next to nothing in case of a sale, knowing that you'll have to pay 10 EUR for the transfer.

So, not from you, and certainly not in the text posted by murnau. It looked like "charge per plugin" (as in singular), but it doesn't mean that you would have had to do it. Period!

Your post also mentions "a license transfer" - implicating the whole process, not a single(!) plugin.

Have any one of you ever cared to contact Jeroen directly about this prior to the fall out?
If so, care to post the mails?!

Skorpius wrote:Anyway, I'm glad he has revised his original license transfer text and decided to reduce the fee to a level that seems far more acceptable to lots of people.

Who are "a lot" of people? Like 5-10 as it happened in here?
Do these people speak for the "majority" or just as personal opinion?

And what is acceptable? 1 EUR? 5EUR?
Definitely not 10EUR, so that is a fact. And especially not if it's "per plugin", no doubt.

Skorpius wrote:And what lnikj calls "a glorious victory for the righteous whingers", I'd rather call an adjustment of a business policy that was going to scare lots of customers away. IMHO, there's nothing philosophical or sociological about this discussion and the subsequent policy revision of TB. It's really all about basic marketing: The customer is king!

Wow... did you say the same about Melda Production's once highly debated license transfer fee and subscription model? Did you also go "far out" on this?

JJ_Jettflow wrote:What is so "righteous" about a discussing both the negative and positive aspects a developer's policy change? I thought that was what forums were for...discussing things? Or are we only supposed to say nice, positive things here?

It is not about discussing things. It is about how you discuss things.

I would have understood the whole thing if it would have been about a general 50-70% license transfer fee, which accumulates the more licenses you have (11 times 19,95 = 219,45, 70% of that would have been 153,615EUR). Certain companies tried to pull that off in recent years, and in this case - it was(!) adjusted to go on the fence and fight back.

But in this case, it is not adjusted.
Why? Because of the wording of the policy (which can be taken both ways, and a simple mail would have cleared that) and the plugins are cheap to begin with. So the loss is not high compared to investing 99USD per plugin, plus subscription plan!

So the second hand market might be good for those looking for a deal. But for Jeroen, it steals him a lot of time. The much hated discouragement or even "ban" (abolishment) of sales has a specific reason behind it. Jeroen (like many independent developers out there) is a one man army, and we can be happy that he offers his rare spare time for creating new plugins (his day job is for another company!). So it is (at least to me) understandable where he wants to devote his time to.

To me(!), 10EUR for one plugin and/or a set would have been just as fair to boot, considering what extra work this is for Jeroen.

But no, just like the iLok license fee (which in turn is(!) steep and does not get forwarded to the devs in question - as they usually have the extra work), this is an absolute no-go and needs to be adjusted... OR ELSE.

Yes, speak your mind.
Yes, speak with your wallet.
All good and fine, adjusted even.

But in all seriousness - did it really cross your mind that in this case, it is just exaggerated?
It boggles my mind how messed up these threads can get at just the blink of an eye.

But I also already get the usual vibe towards me. So time for me to back out.
You've all made your point - it can only go one way from here on out...

JJ_Jettflow · Post by **JJ_Jettflow** » Tue Jul 28, 2015 10:37 am

JJ_Jettflow wrote:What is so "righteous" about a discussing both the negative and positive aspects a developer's policy change? I thought that was what forums were for...discussing things? Or are we only supposed to say nice, positive things here?

Compyfox wrote:It is not about discussing things. It is about how you discuss things.

You are right there..100% right. And through the course of this thread I have been called "dumb" outright, I have told that made "very stupid" comments, I have been included as one of the "righteous" as well as being a "whiner", accused of "ranting" and all by the people who were defending a policy that Toneboosters changed anyway. All this because I decided to express my opinion?

chk071 · Post by **chk071** » Tue Jul 28, 2015 10:44 am

Unbelievable that a 10 € license transfer fee for a 20 € product can produce 11 pages plus of discussion on an internet forum... tbh, i'm not sure i would even bother to make myself the work to put a sale here for such a low priced product. I mean, what do you get as a used price? 10 €? Hardly worth the effort. Well, to each his own.

djeroen · Post by **djeroen** » Tue Jul 28, 2015 10:51 am

Perhaps time to chime in...

First, thanks to those supporting ToneBoosters; great to see that the quality of the plugins is so well regarded in relation to what they cost, and the suggestion that they might actually be too cheap for what they provide is well noted.

Second, based on the ideas, comments and suggestions made here, the EULA and transfer process have been updated to describe the process more clearly, which should, hopefully, benefit everybody.

Lastly, if you all put the same devotion and energy into making music as some of you do writing on this board, I'm sure that will result in great productions (hopefully using TB plugins

)

chk071 · Post by **chk071** » Tue Jul 28, 2015 11:02 am

soulone82 · Post by **soulone82** » Tue Jul 28, 2015 11:18 am

el-bo (formerly ebow) · Tue Jul 28, 2015 1:27 pm

Daags · Post by **Daags** » Tue Jul 28, 2015 2:02 pm

the squeeky wheel gets the oil

yomanfree · Post by **yomanfree** » Tue Jul 28, 2015 6:23 pm

murnau · Post by **murnau** » Tue Jul 28, 2015 6:34 pm

FYI: The maximum number of smilies allowed is 30.

Beatworld · Post by **Beatworld** » Wed Jul 29, 2015 6:16 am

djeroen wrote: Lastly, if you all put the same devotion and energy into making music as some of you do writing on this board, I'm sure that will result in great productions (hopefully using TB plugins )

Never a truer word has been spoken.

I can't believe how much time and effort was wasted by so many on this topic.
Obviously not much to do in many studios at the moment.

murnau · Post by **murnau** » Wed Jul 29, 2015 6:33 am

Beatworld wrote:
djeroen wrote: Lastly, if you all put the same devotion and energy into making music as some of you do writing on this board, I'm sure that will result in great productions (hopefully using TB plugins )
Never a truer word has been spoken.
I can't believe how much time and effort was wasted by so many on this topic.
Obviously not much to do in many studios at the moment.

Not really true, i write mostly when i'm here in the studio during the breaks when i eat and drink and "set my ears free" and you?

JJ_Jettflow · Post by **JJ_Jettflow** » Wed Jul 29, 2015 10:19 am

Beatworld wrote:
djeroen wrote: Lastly, if you all put the same devotion and energy into making music as some of you do writing on this board, I'm sure that will result in great productions (hopefully using TB plugins )
Never a truer word has been spoken.
I can't believe how much time and effort was wasted by so many on this topic.
Obviously not much to do in many studios at the moment.

So getting the license transfer policy at Toneboosters clarified is a waste of time? I do not think so. Now anyone and everyone who wishes to buy Tonebooster products will be able to know exactly what the deal is if they should ever feel the need to sell them.

However, it would have been better if it could have been done without personal attacks.

replicant X · Post by **replicant X** » Mon May 09, 2016 12:31 pm

deleted

ToneBoosters: New License Transfer Policy