KVR Audio

incubus · Post by **incubus** » Tue Apr 11, 2017 5:16 am

Again, it's not that I love 44.1k, it's that the plugs WORK best with that SR. Very simple.

In a perfect world, I'd rather work with 96k (or even 88.2k) and have a higher buffer and get the best of both worlds.

But alas, too many plugs and hosts have issues at anything other than 44.1k, and it's not worth it.

realmarco · Post by **realmarco** » Sun Apr 30, 2017 6:03 am

I record audio at 96Khz

i EQ in 96 then bounce down after to 44.1

and then i mix at 44.1khz

EnGee · Post by **EnGee** » Sun Apr 30, 2017 6:59 am

Everything in 44.1 khz. it is good enough for me

sqigls · Post by **sqigls** » Sun Apr 30, 2017 4:33 pm

48 previously
Doing my best to migrate to 96

deastman · Post by **deastman** » Sun Apr 30, 2017 5:44 pm

44.1 for casual songwriting, and 48 when scoring for video. And it's a real pain when I forget and do a bunch of work at the wrong rate. Which is almost every single time.

ViciousBliss · Post by **ViciousBliss** » Mon May 01, 2017 6:28 am

After reading through the GS plugin analysis thread, I switched to 88/96. There's a lot of evidence that this preserves the integrity of the audio much better than 44. As stated there by people like Andy from Cytomic, plugs should work better at higher rates provided they were made correctly. Someone found a rumble problem with the Metric Halo Channel Strip. What Andy said to me over there was:

"Thanks for the post! It illustrates what I've been talking about perfectly. The main downside of recording at 88 instead of 44 are that all tracks require double the hard drive storage, but I don't view this as much of an issue compared to the gains. Some poorly written plugins won't operate properly at samples rates other than 44.1 kHz, but you have to ask yourself should you really use such plugins anyway? An example is plugins that use "32-bit float DF1 biquads" that actually add rumble at low frequencies even when "doing nothing". You would be surprised at how many of these there are, but it's easy to check with a spectrum analyser.

So if you stick to "good" plugins then the benefits of running at 88.2/96 are:
clearer and less muddy sounding mixes, especially in the upper mid to highs
de-cramped amplitude and phase responses from all EQs and filters
lower aliasing from all non-linear processing
fewer plugins and less fiddling required to get a good mix
lower latency in your project since most plugins won't require additional oversampling that adds latency (remember that if you double your buffer sizes to prevent dropouts this is fine, since at twice the sample rate it works out to the same actual buffer size in seconds)"

Can anyone post some plugs that don't work right at 88/96? I'm not too sure how to analyze for these things myself.

I'm finding that doing an all ITB mix at 88/96 isn't really all that practical on a regular consumer computer, especially if you want to put something like VCC and NLS on every track. I got a Z800 workstation with two 5670 cpus and it smokes the old DX4860-UR15P I was working on, but I don't think there's any way I could do like a 60 track 96k session with 5-10 auxes plus a master fader even if all I put on was NLS and/or VCC plus a bunch of cpu efficient Waves plugs. Some plugs will kill even the best cpus. H-Reverb maxes out the $2500 Waves Soundgrid Extreme Server at 9 instances(14 at 44.1). The reality seems to be that to do a large 88/96 session without a ton of combining/freezing/committing, you'll need some kind of external DSP or a computer that's several times more powerful than the Z800 I have.

EnGee · Post by **EnGee** » Mon May 01, 2017 7:17 am

ViciousBliss wrote:After reading through the GS plugin analysis thread, I switched to 88/96. There's a lot of evidence that this preserves the integrity of the audio much better than 44. As stated there by people like Andy from Cytomic, plugs should work better at higher rates provided they were made correctly. Someone found a rumble problem with the Metric Halo Channel Strip. What Andy said to me over there was:

Can you link to the thread please?

Edit:
I found a nice article in SOS:
http://www.soundonsound.com/sound-advic ... mple-rates

and then to :
http://src.infinitewave.ca/
It is about the conversion noise or distortion that happens from 96 khz to 44.1 khz in different DAWs. The help window is essential to understand what the graphs mean.

Damn! Cubase (5->8) is not doing that well here

while Ableton Live 9 is king here! Reaper 5, Logic X, Sonar X3 and Studio One v2 are good overall it seems.

ViciousBliss · Post by **ViciousBliss** » Tue May 02, 2017 6:17 am

https://www.gearslutz.com/board/music-c ... ad-88.html

You might want to read some of the pages before and after.

Aloysius · Post by **Aloysius** » Tue May 02, 2017 6:31 am

EnGee · Post by **EnGee** » Tue May 02, 2017 7:15 am

ViciousBliss wrote:https://www.gearslutz.com/board/music-c ... ad-88.html

You might want to read some of the pages before and after.

Thanks

I have tried yesterday 88/96 khz but I didn't stay long to test it because my desktop CPU couldn't handle it if I use synths like Diva, one chord and "crackles - red signs"

So, I'm back to 44.1 khz. Anyway, it is good to know about this topic for future upgrades I guess

sqigls · Post by **sqigls** » Tue May 02, 2017 7:53 am

I've noticed a big difference on Funktion One rigs, playing at 24/96... the reverb and delay tails sound more detailed and the stereo spread for some reason sits better?... envelopes also sound more accurate, tighter perhaps?... for me, because i play a lot of dubby vibes, 24/96 makes a lot of sense. I've noticed that I get a LOT of people coming up to me and commenting on the sound. At Dub Camp last year i had 2 or three people say to me that my sound was the best they heard all festival, which was a real heart-warmer for me

Hermetech Mastering · Post by **Hermetech Mastering** » Tue May 02, 2017 8:16 am

Yeah on a huge high quality rig you are REALLY gonna notice better sound, I think, same with high end DJ mixers. Sold a Condesa Lucia recently, and that thing sounded insanely good!

MogwaiBoy · Post by **MogwaiBoy** » Tue May 02, 2017 8:35 am

I'm finding a good compromise is 48k record/produce/mix with oversampled plugins where possible - then upsampling the final mix render to 96k (RX5 for me) and importing back into a fresh 96k mastering session in your DAW.

With the power and storage space of computers increasing, I can see 96k being much more common - however I don't think we're quite there yet.

poshook · Post by **poshook** » Sun May 07, 2017 5:12 pm

44100 but on 2bus i use ddmf metaplugin with 2x oversampling with all plugins in chain. I would use 88200 but some vsti ruin my cpu. In 88200 all plugins are 2x oversampled and the sound quality is much better than 44100

chk071 · Post by **chk071** » Sun May 07, 2017 5:36 pm

Real men use 44.1 kHz.

KVR Audio

What sample rate are you using most often?

Production Sample Rate?