LiquidSonics Seventh Heaven and Seventh Heaven Professional

[ghettosynth]

To my surprise the default presets sound indistinguishable to SIR2 with free M7 impulses after matching the levels (I really wanted to notice the difference), but tweaking 7HP is when magic starts.

Can you discuss this more specifically? I'm not sure that I want 7HP TBH, but I'd love to hear more detail to help make that decision.

The default presets will sound the same as Bricasti impulses loaded to SIR2 and I believe Reverberate 2 too (and other true-stereo convolvers). There are multiple knobs to tune the sound on 7HP which are IMO justifying the purchase, like: decay, pattern selection, pre-delay, delay, roll-off freq and early/late mixer (some from Advanced Settings panel). To me the most interesting is pre-delay which behaves unlike any other plugin I know, and can transform the starting sound to something very different and matching your needs better. So from limited set of impulses 7HP opens the door to unlimited sounds which sound very convincingly (I don't know how they compare to the hardware though).
I encourage you to download the demo and try it yourelf tweaking the knobs I mentioned, especially early/late mixer and pre-delay.
Purely soundwise it looks like my goto reverb, it just sounds so good, in most of cases better than other plugins I mentioned before.

Thanks, that helps. I don't want to spend hours tweaking so I wanted to know which specific things that you were referring to in order to decide for myself whether it's worth the premium over using the Bricasti IRs with Reverberate.

[pekbro]

Yeah R4 and Nimbus aren't even close to the sound in my opinion.

I'll try again when I get home. Maybe my wallet has been affecting my hearing. I already spent $450 bucks on plugins this month. Ouch.

-cheers

[dktn]

The difference against SIR2 is the living breathing sound of the Fusion-IR capture and playback, the modulation sits it with the source more organically and brings it way more close to an algorithmic sound that blends rather than sitting next to it.

I would really like to hear the difference. What am I doing wrong? For example with this sample: first part is dry, second and third are SIR2 and 7HP respectively (or the opposite?;) ).
Preset Large Chamber, 100% wet. What should I pay attention to? Maybe different source material?
http://www.mediafire.com/file/1qka2u0ie ... b-test.wav

After changing the pre-delay value in both the difference is huge, SIR2 just delays, 7HP smooths out the delay what's much more usable.

[ghettosynth]

The difference against SIR2 is the living breathing sound of the Fusion-IR capture and playback, the modulation sits it with the source more organically and brings it way more close to an algorithmic sound that blends rather than sitting next to it.

I would really like to hear the difference. What am I doing wrong? For example with this sample: first part is dry, second and third are SIR2 and 7HP respectively (or the opposite?;) ).
Preset Large Chamber, 100% wet. What should I pay attention to? Maybe different source material?
http://www.mediafire.com/file/1qka2u0ie ... b-test.wav

After changing the pre-delay value in both the difference is huge, SIR2 just delays, 7HP smooths out the delay what's much more usable.

Your file didn't download for me.

[Heartfeltdawn]

My favorite reverb company I don't use nothing but Reverberate 2 but it very sad to see the price going astronomical for Reverberate owners to upgrade. Seriously, it is amazingly expensive. I could have paid 150 USD without Demo. That is how much I'm satisfied with Reverberate 2. See you on sale Seventh Heaven.

Seriously, it isn't astronomical.

[aMUSEd]

The difference against SIR2 is the living breathing sound of the Fusion-IR capture and playback, the modulation sits it with the source more organically and brings it way more close to an algorithmic sound that blends rather than sitting next to it.

I would really like to hear the difference. What am I doing wrong? For example with this sample: first part is dry, second and third are SIR2 and 7HP respectively (or the opposite?;) ).
Preset Large Chamber, 100% wet. What should I pay attention to? Maybe different source material?
http://www.mediafire.com/file/1qka2u0ie ... b-test.wav

After changing the pre-delay value in both the difference is huge, SIR2 just delays, 7HP smooths out the delay what's much more usable.

Reverberate has the predelay too though so I'm rather unclear as to the differences.

[liquidsonics]

The difference against SIR2 is the living breathing sound of the Fusion-IR capture and playback, the modulation sits it with the source more organically and brings it way more close to an algorithmic sound that blends rather than sitting next to it.

I would really like to hear the difference. What am I doing wrong? For example with this sample: first part is dry, second and third are SIR2 and 7HP respectively (or the opposite?;) ).
Preset Large Chamber, 100% wet. What should I pay attention to? Maybe different source material?
http://www.mediafire.com/file/1qka2u0ie ... b-test.wav

After changing the pre-delay value in both the difference is huge, SIR2 just delays, 7HP smooths out the delay what's much more usable.

Reverberate has the predelay too though so I'm rather unclear as to the differences.

A few differences. If an M7 preset already had pre-delay in it you get to see what this is. If you change the predelay in an M7, only the low frequency and the late are affected by it - hence removing/adding/reducing predelay within a recorded M7 preset of a regular IR is difficult without messing up the relative timing of the other 2 reverb elements. It might sound like trivia, but the predelay not affecting the early reflections makes a massive difference to how well the sound glues to the source. You can kinda-half do that in Reverberate 2 if you split the early and late reverbs into IR1/IR2, edit them differently and play concurrently but you'd have needed to know to do that, except the low frequency reverbs are not recorded independently so you can't properly do it fully. Building that and various other bits of specific algorithmic knowledge and DSP into a general purpose plugin isn't the way forwards. The plugin is full of subtle little bits of polish coming from knowledge of the workings of the specific reverb unit that turn this into an especially high end and musically convenient tool that it's very easy to get the right sound out of without needing to understand what happens behind the scenes.

[aMUSEd]

The difference against SIR2 is the living breathing sound of the Fusion-IR capture and playback, the modulation sits it with the source more organically and brings it way more close to an algorithmic sound that blends rather than sitting next to it.

I would really like to hear the difference. What am I doing wrong? For example with this sample: first part is dry, second and third are SIR2 and 7HP respectively (or the opposite?;) ).
Preset Large Chamber, 100% wet. What should I pay attention to? Maybe different source material?
http://www.mediafire.com/file/1qka2u0ie ... b-test.wav

After changing the pre-delay value in both the difference is huge, SIR2 just delays, 7HP smooths out the delay what's much more usable.

Reverberate has the predelay too though so I'm rather unclear as to the differences.

A few differences. If an M7 preset already had pre-delay in it you get to see what this is. If you change the predelay in an M7, only the low frequency and the late are affected by it - hence removing/adding/reducing predelay within a recorded M7 preset of a regular IR is difficult without messing up the relative timing of the other 2 reverb elements.

OK but Revereberate doesn't just have regular IRs of the M7, it also has fusion IRs, which is what I had in mind.

[dktn]

I would really like to hear the difference. What am I doing wrong? For example with this sample: first part is dry, second and third are SIR2 and 7HP respectively (or the opposite?;) ).
Preset Large Chamber, 100% wet. What should I pay attention to? Maybe different source material?
http://www.mediafire.com/file/1qka2u0ie ... b-test.wav

Your file didn't download for me.

You have to right-click and open in a new tab then download. Unfortunatelly it looks like mediafire integration with forum is not working properly.

[Michael L]

OK but Revereberate doesn't just have regular IRs of the M7, it also has fusion IRs, which is what I had in mind

You might find it worthwhile to open R2 and try what Matt described in his long explanation above. Hearing it helped me understand what he is trying to say in words.

[aMUSEd]

OK but Revereberate doesn't just have regular IRs of the M7, it also has fusion IRs, which is what I had in mind

You might find it worthwhile to open R2 and try what Matt described in his long explanation above. Hearing it helped me understand what he is trying to say in words.

I thought he was referring to regular IRs though. At least that's what it says above.

[ghettosynth]

The difference against SIR2 is the living breathing sound of the Fusion-IR capture and playback, the modulation sits it with the source more organically and brings it way more close to an algorithmic sound that blends rather than sitting next to it.

I would really like to hear the difference. What am I doing wrong? For example with this sample: first part is dry, second and third are SIR2 and 7HP respectively (or the opposite?;) ).
Preset Large Chamber, 100% wet. What should I pay attention to? Maybe different source material?
http://www.mediafire.com/file/1qka2u0ie ... b-test.wav

After changing the pre-delay value in both the difference is huge, SIR2 just delays, 7HP smooths out the delay what's much more usable.

Is this related to simply not pre-delaying the early reflections? I really like Eventide's 2016 Room and it's, in part, because the "position" parameter adjusts the early lage reflections balance, among other things (according to the manual), and I can drive it 100% wet and just adjust the position parameter. It sounds different from just delaying with pre-delay and/or just adjusting the wet/dry of the reverb overall.

For me, what's starting to work is that I'm not just using a single reverb but choosing the ER model and tails from different reverbs. If pre-delay is trivially implemented, a delay gets the job done. By using my own custom chains it's rather easy to not delay the ER.

TBH, I'm finding that I'm not really a fan of the Bricasti sound, sorry if that's blasphemy. It's not even my favorite responses for use in Reverberate. Then again, maybe it's me?

At any rate, despite the long-winded diatribe, this is really a question for the experts here.

[Michael L]

I find it useful in Reverberate 2 to compare the Traditional IR, Fusion IR, and M7 on the same instrument. I find that one size does not fit all! I also like mixing IRs with different profiles in IR1 and IR2; and R2 has a early/late balance slider for each IR (on the Edit pages). This thread is (ironically) increasing my appreciation for R2!

[Harry_HH]

I find it useful in Reverberate 2 to compare the Traditional IR, Fusion IR, and M7 on the same instrument. I find that one size does not fit all! I also like mixing IRs with different profiles in IR1 and IR2; and R2 has a early/late balance slider for each IR (on the Edit pages). This thread is (ironically) increasing my appreciation for R2!

I don't have the R2 but I'm interested both that and the new LSSHP.
Question concerning the use of true stereo in the R2: what is the way convolution files have been organized? Each IR works independently and is labeled, but each IR1+IR2 pair also creates its unuque space.
- Are the IR1+IR2 pairs labeled/named?
- Can you load the pair at the same time or do you have to load each IR separately?

If you can't load/browse the pairs, and the pairs are not oranized, isn't the use of 'true stereo' too arbitrary (and too much loading)?

[Michael L]

^^^ This is how the User Guide explains:

Auto-Pair True Stereo IR: When in true stereo mode and auto pairing is selected, loading a true impulse response of the format <name>Left.<extension> or <name>L.<extension> will result in the auto pairing function seeking an appropriate file named <name>Right.<extension> or <name>R.<extension> for paired loading (pairing is case insensitive). This is only active when loading files into the IR1-A and IR2-A containers when using the eject or left/right spinner buttons.

The IR1-B/IR2-B controls do not automatically pair files to enable rapid auditioning of alternative pairings for true stereo impulse responses.
 Off: No paring is attempted when changing IRs.
 Attempt Paring: When loading IRs an attempt will be made to pair the files based on file name. If files are named using a scheme not recognised by the plug-in pairing algorithm, no automated pairing will be evident.

There's more detail in the IR2 User Guide DL at the bottom of this page (and the LSSHP Guide on its page): https://www.liquidsonics.com/software/reverberate-2

Personally, I like getting to know different IRs, combining and tweaking them, but not everyone does. LSSHP seems designed for those who want excellent results more quickly and consistently (as Matt explains at length above) but I don't own it yet so I can't say.