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CosmicClayton
KVRer
 
6 posts since 30 Apr, 2017

Postby CosmicClayton; Sun Mar 04, 2018 6:19 pm Re: I want to Sidechain Compress Only certain hZ at very High Q!

Gamma-UT wrote:It's going to be a whole lot of work to find out it won't have any beneficial effect or at least not the one the OP probably expects. If you have 65Hz from a kick drum vs 65Hz from a bass the brain will register those as being part of the same sound unless there's a dramatic difference in the volume envelope over a wider range of frequencies. Chances are the brain will hear it as that part of the kick or bass being extended rather than as one instrument taking over.

Sidechaining works because it emphasises the differences in attack and volume envelope between competing instruments across a large enough swathe of the frequency spectrum to be picked up by the brain. When sounds overlap in such a detailed way as the way the OP describes, temporal and frequency masking effects take over and one sound will continue to dominate psychoacoustically even though it's physically ducked out.

Dark techno takes advantage of this masking to build those kick+rumble basslines.


Good answer I han't thought of it like that. I think you may be right. Thanks for all the replies everyone!

thecontrolcentre wrote:
dark water wrote:^^ looks good in many ways TCC, but can it do the bit about the OP's active frequencies (if so, you'll save me about 20 minutes work trying to experiment!):
''It's like I want to sidechain a dynamic EQ to an 808 and have it duck out just the active frequencies from the kick.''


Sorry. I don't know ... sidechaining is not my strong point :hihi: Was just pointing out Live's Multiband Dynamics Effect to the OP. Seems Live's built-in effects are often disregarded by users ...


Yes I agree but I am aware of Live's multiband plugin. The problem is it can't select nearly small enough amount of frequencies that I'm going for. I tried it out.

I think Gamma UT is probably right. This doesn't seem to be a very common technique at all. Which makes me think it's not worth all effort it takes to get this sort of a setup running. I wanted to be able to have absolutely no clashing frequencies in my low end and have my instruments communicate so as one takes up certain frequencies, the other one stops taking those frequencies. But perhaps doing it to this extent is just overkill :shrug:
CosmicClayton
KVRer
 
6 posts since 30 Apr, 2017

Postby CosmicClayton; Mon Mar 05, 2018 2:38 pm Re: I want to Sidechain Compress Only certain hZ at very High Q!

Alright I've figured out a pretty good solution for 808 style midi triggered basses. A guy over at Gearslutz linked me a video from ADSR that gave me an idea. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bWuaxvaYAe0&feature=youtu.be

I resample a copy of whatever 808 I've made. I place a copy of the 808 in Ableton's drum racks, pitch them each up and down in the sampler to where they play the note I want when the corresponding midi key hits that sample. Then place an envelope follower after each one. Then put an eq on the kick track and line up 8 or so eq points based on the hZ value of each note, 32,41,65 hZ etc. Then map the envelope followers to each of these eq points so that when the envelope follower is triggered say on the C0 808, 32 hZ is pulled down on the eq corresponding to the volume of the 808.

It's a little more time consuming than I want but this way I'm only cutting the kick durm frequencies that actually need to be cut! And the fundamental of the 808 has that frequency all to itself! I haven't figured out a way for audio basses or more complex synth basses.
dark water
KVRian
 
887 posts since 2 Jun, 2016
CosmicClayton wrote:Alright I've figured out a pretty good solution for 808 style midi triggered basses. A guy over at Gearslutz linked me a video from ADSR that gave me an idea. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bWuaxva ... e=youtu.be

I resample a copy of whatever 808 I've made. I place a copy of the 808 in Ableton's drum racks, pitch them each up and down in the sampler to where they play the note I want when the corresponding midi key hits that sample. Then place an envelope follower after each one. Then put an eq on the kick track and line up 8 or so eq points based on the hZ value of each note, 32,41,65 hZ etc. Then map the envelope followers to each of these eq points so that when the envelope follower is triggered say on the C0 808, 32 hZ is pulled down on the eq corresponding to the volume of the 808.

It's a little more time consuming than I want but this way I'm only cutting the kick durm frequencies that actually need to be cut! And the fundamental of the 808 has that frequency all to itself! I haven't figured out a way for audio basses or more complex synth basses.


Interesting. Perhaps complicated to set up initially but should yield results.
I can confirm that my main suggested method (and also the cheat with the sine wave) work well.
Chandlerhimself
KVRian
 
796 posts since 19 Dec, 2013, from Japan

Postby Chandlerhimself; Wed Mar 07, 2018 8:34 pm Re: I want to Sidechain Compress Only certain hZ at very High Q!

I'm pretty sure MSpectraldynamics will do this. It comes as a VST as well as a VST 3, but I can't help you with ableton. MSD will only compress the frequencies in the sidechain while leaving the other frequencies alone. Of course in the low frequencies I doubt it has 1hz resolution, but I don't think that's really makes a difference. There is a demo if you want to try it. I think trackspacer will do this as well.
Reefius
KVRist
 
430 posts since 7 Dec, 2013, from Belgium
Sidechaining a small frequency band with a very narrow Q will sound terrible, I really don't see the point of it.

But if you really want to try it, I'm sure it is possible in Live 10 using M4L devices to control an EQ8 band.
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