Do you end up getting tired of your own music from the production process?

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I've always had this problem, and again found myself in this situation today. I'll come up with 8 bars that sound great to me at first, enough that I tell myself I'm going to finish this song. Then I'll try to find working variations and complementary parts, program some sounds, find some old ones that might work, mix a bit as I go, do an arrangement, find variations of said arrangement I like, do a real mix, master.. This takes me a couple months on and off.

By the time I reach the end I've probably heard that first 8 bars a few thousand times. It kinda has that effect of when you hear a song on the radio you like way too many times. I know I liked it when I wrote it but now it feels stale, and I haven't even finished it.

Does this happen to anyone else? Any tricks you've found that help?[/url]
♫♪♫♫♪♫

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3*s wrote:I've always had this problem, and again found myself in this situation today. I'll come up with 8 bars that sound great to me at first, enough that I tell myself I'm going to finish this song. Then I'll try to find working variations and complementary parts, program some sounds, find some old ones that might work, mix a bit as I go, do an arrangement, find variations of said arrangement I like, do a real mix, master.. This takes me a couple months on and off.

By the time I reach the end I've probably heard that first 8 bars a few thousand times. It kinda has that effect of when you hear a song on the radio you like way too many times. I know I liked it when I wrote it but now it feels stale, and I haven't even finished it.

Does this happen to anyone else? Any tricks you've found that help?[/url]
I used to have this problem all the time! I would have all my tracks laid out, my clips in live would be all working together and I would just keep clicking the master clip launcher for each level over and over trying to figure out how to put the loops together in a actual song format.

I work in a very linear way now but what i found is to really focus on getting the skeleton down of the track. By this i mean really focus on getting the main melody and rhythm down. Take existing loops and add a few things and just keep going until you have something that can be recorded. Once you got the loops and main "spirit" of the track down you can start going in and adding little details, changing parts etc.

I do this now and my only real problem is going back and FINISHING a track that i created like this.

If you find yourself really not making anything good with your mouse and keyboard for melody then get a midi keyboard and play something. It can be quick and often very rewarding.
:borg:

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You make THAT 8-bar killer groove? Fear nothing! Just follow these tips: :P

- Do a basic arrangement. That old intro-verse-break-verse-outro crappy template. There's good chance you'll hate it, but it's a lot easier to try good ideas if you have your song arranged even if it's in a lazy way.

- Leave it for some days. This way you'll keep yourself interested enough to come to it with a basic idea for an arrangement, some days (months, years in my case) later.

- Copy (yes, the unholy word...) the arrangement of a similar song.

- If you have nothing to add to the loop, simply don't listen to it. Keep focused on the arrangement. And turn off the loop function of your sequencer.

- Draw your arrangement on paper. Don't look the computer screen.


Works for me.


As a bonus, here's some nice tips from Olav Basoski:

http://www.olavbasoski.nl/?page_id=182

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3*s wrote:By the time I reach the end I've probably heard that first 8 bars a few thousand times. It kinda has that effect of when you hear a song on the radio you like way too many times. I know I liked it when I wrote it but now it feels stale, and I haven't even finished it.

Does this happen to anyone else? Any tricks you've found that help?
It is caused by lack of variation. Lack of changes. When you work with this 8 bar loop it doesn't change much. And that makes it boring.
In order to avoid this your best bet is to start adding movement, tension and release as early in the process as possible. You have to start doing it even before you make your 8 bar loop perfect.
Simply repeating 8 bar loop couple of times and opening a filter and increasing decay over that time can make wonders and inspire new ideas on development of the track.
Wonder whether my advice worth a penny? Check my music at Soundcloud and decide for yourself.
re:vibe and Loki Fuego @ Soundcloud

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I've got about 20 or 30 unfinished ideas and produced nothing this year outside of some projects for friends, etc. I think it's the lack of a specific goal - I don't have to finish it, so I don't.

But yup - always get to a point were I like my main idea, then keep listening to it to see where it needs to go, etc. Then I'm sick of it and move on.

One thing I'm trying is to listen less unless often and more intently when I do. I've gotten in the habit of doing sound design, etc., while looping what I have - a good way to get sick of something; better to listen a few times then moving on to the work - add/edit/change/listen, then get back to work again. Don't know if it will help yet.

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Loki Fuego wrote: It is caused by lack of variation. Lack of changes. When you work with this 8 bar loop it doesn't change much. And that makes it boring.
In order to avoid this your best bet is to start adding movement, tension and release as early in the process as possible. You have to start doing it even before you make your 8 bar loop perfect.
Simply repeating 8 bar loop couple of times and opening a filter and increasing decay over that time can make wonders and inspire new ideas on development of the track.
Well put.

I've heard mixes on KVR that start with 4 bars only kick. So I get the feeling there is too much mathematics going on, than music creating.

But it happends I get bored on my own stuff.

That could mean two things:

a) it's really not much art in there - this is probably the case if it happend after a very short time, like an hour or so. Be creative and change it.

b) it's a healthy reaction listening too many times in a row to a piece. If you are in the final mixing stage this can be a good thing - because while you are in love with the piece you are swept away - and might not listen with both feet on the floor.

If to listen for things that don't come through enough - it's good to be sober doing that - not being in love.

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re: ".. start adding movement, tension and release as early in the process as possible. You have to start doing it even before you make your 8 bar loop perfect. "


I start by saying that this approach may be awfully mechanistic, but I do find it good at times. Sometimes when I start a project, I start by creating a empty track and filling it with clips that I name according to their roles in the song structure:

Image

It functions as a guideline and a reminder that I need to consider the song in its entirety, and not just an eight bar loop that I keep building upon. What's dangerously mechanistic about it is that it's sort of "filling in the blanks" - but it doesn't restrict me, because I can obviously do what I want with it (I don't need to adhere to the structure that I started with). The biggest benefit of it is indeed that it keeps reminding me that I have to consider a part in the context of the next one (have fills with variations, build-ups, etc) and not focus on building the most exquisite 8-bar loop.

It's also good for having those parts as rough demos, and when the whole structure is full, I can play the instruments from the beginning to the end (giving them the natural variation doing that gives).


edit: oh wey, dark_virus put it quite well, too.

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V0RT3X wrote: I work in a very linear way now but what i found is to really focus on getting the skeleton down of the track. By this i mean really focus on getting the main melody and rhythm down. Take existing loops and add a few things and just keep going until you have something that can be recorded. Once you got the loops and main "spirit" of the track down you can start going in and adding little details, changing parts etc.
Agreed - Same here. Instead of creating the world's most awesome 8-bar loop, try to create a 3+ minute song as quickly as possible, even if it doesn't sound great. Once you have a "demo version" of the track, you can go back and tweak individual parts, add transitions, variety etc.
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Definitely I get tired, especially in the later stages of fine tuning effects and mixing, and mastering. Usually I totally need a break after I finished a track, and I am always just short of vomiting because I can't stand it anymore. Also, once finished, I still think that it is a bad track, that it has lots of bad things that needed to be fixed.

4 weeks later its a whole different story, I like the track again and I think "wow, it is not that bad after all"

Same story each and every time ;) :)

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If you have a perfect 8-bar loop, just loop it for 5 minutes. After all, it's perfect, right? :hihi:
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Finish the track, before the bass line does your head in!

;)
... space is the place ...

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No way, man! I've only been mixing this one song for almost 7 years now, and it just keeps getting better. No one else seems to be able to tell the difference, but I totally can!

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Hahaha yes this is exactly what happens to me 80% of the time. I have learnt to smash my tracks out as fast as possible to keep my motivation rolling, otherwise i lose interest after the 700th time listening.

I tend to finish my best tracks in a matter of days, thats not to say i don't put as much quality into them though. In those short days i will probably spend up to 60 hours on a single song.

I have also started doing what others have said on here, and that is to build a basic structure or layout of the entire song from intro to outro. That way I know that within all the midi clips and audio files there is an actual song there.

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I agree with a lot of the comments here. I also put together the basic structure first. Since I am mainly a keyboard player, I tend to play complete takes instead of recording beats and patterns. Since I am listening to the entire song, and not a single 8-bar loop, I don't tend to get tired very quickly. I don't go back and edit until I have all my tracks recorded. Also, I keep my arrangements simple so I seldom have more than 10-15 tracks. When I do edit, I do it with a magnifying glass so I can fix most of the problems in a relatively few passes through the song. After tracking and editing the way I do, the song is mostly mixed by the time I am done editing. A few more passes, and the mix is in good shape.

Finally and most importantly, I let the song sit for a day or two. Then when I listen to it, I find that things that may have stood out during mix down, don't stand out like before. The time off from the song allows me to hear the song as it is, and not how it was in my head when I was recording. For me, that makes a huge difference.
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If i get a loop like that going i immediately put it at bar 32 and work back to the intro first , because that loop is where i want to get to not play it over and over :-)
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