Good ways to make your songs approximately the same volume?

[matthew_wehttam]

This was my first post so I apoligise for my grumpy neivity. I think what I am getting at is right slightly but wrong too. I think a gate per channel of a certain theshold would be good for a particular clarity in the overal mix. Although this should have been stated more of a question than a solution. And somewhere between the complex and the simple may be more accurate. What do you guys think?

[Compyfox]

Actually, thinking about it (using a gate on the master channel) doesn't make much sense in terms of metering anyway. Since you usually don't want to measure the dynamic range (for this, a gate makes absolute sense - so that only the "average" to "loudest" range is measured - not the silence or the noise - as I said, this is already part of the EBU R-128 specs), but the average loudness to maximum loudness.


A gate on individual channels makes sense if you want a clean signal overall. Even a low cut filter does work to clean up the low end rumble where especially unweighted meters respond to.

But for measuring and "making stuff loud" (mixdown!), a gate doesn't really make sense. You only tickle out (maybe) a dB or two on the long run (mixdown). Though with individual channels, you can definitely clean up some things and get to the desired hotspot (per channel, peak/average) more easily.

Then again... our intention is to record/work as clean as possible to begin with, isn't it?

[Tricky-Loops]

Actually, thinking about it (using a gate on the master channel) doesn't make much sense in terms of metering anyway. Since you usually don't want to measure the dynamic range (for this, a gate makes absolute sense - so that only the "average" to "loudest" range is measured - not the silence or the noise - as I said, this is already part of the EBU R-128 specs), but the average loudness to maximum loudness.


A gate on individual channels makes sense if you want a clean signal overall. Even a low cut filter does work to clean up the low end rumble where especially unweighted meters respond to.

But for measuring and "making stuff loud" (mixdown!), a gate doesn't really make sense. You only tickle out (maybe) a dB or two on the long run (mixdown). Though with individual channels, you can definitely clean up some things and get to the desired hotspot (per channel, peak/average) more easily.

Then again... our intention is to record/work as clean as possible to begin with, isn't it?

I'm pretty sure that he wanted to post in the other thread which is about how to get more clarity in a mix...

http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=405662

A gate for metering wouldn't make any sense...

[Compyfox]

A gate for metering wouldn't make any sense...

I understand that.


Then again, a "gate" in a mix makes sense, if you want to measure the dynamic range and/or "mathematical loudness over a given period time" (Integrated Loudness in EBU R-128).

[matthew_wehttam]

Hmm if all channels are gated to a certain threshold and the mix is cleaner. Then is the overal sound at a similar volume (or amplitude) and thus making the overal loudness closer or similar though?

[Compyfox]

One one end, it depends on the used meter type and ballistics for analysis.

On the other hand, a more clean signal responds less harsh to a (normal) loudness metering tool (i.e. unweighted RMS or VU meter) than a signal where the lowend rumble is still existing. So in theory, you can push this particular mixdown "more" (i.e. for mastering).


But this thread is still not about "how to make sh*t loud".

[Tricky-Loops]

Hmm if all channels are gated to a certain threshold and the mix is cleaner. Then is the overal sound at a similar volume (or amplitude) and thus making the overal loudness closer or similar though?

You can use a gate on certain tracks (especially drums) to "delete" unwanted noises and reverb/delay tails which makes the mix clearer. But it doesn't have anything to do with similar volume...

[matthew_wehttam]

Well if you use the same method for each one of your tracks with the same threshold level on each gate on each track on each composition. Then each will have a simillar overall level of amplitude surely? Maybe this suits electronic music more than it would film scores and classical etc. Etc.?

[Tricky-Loops]

Well if you use the same method for each one of your tracks with the same threshold level on each gate on each track on each composition. Then each will have a simillar overall level of amplitude surely? Maybe this suits electronic music more than it would film scores and classical etc. Etc.?

To limit tracks to a certain threshold, you need a brickwall limiter but not a gate...

[matthew_wehttam]

No I disagree. I would see the gate is a guide. Compression or limiting would help you get the signal through the gate for an overal better mix. Use of compression or limiting would surely depend on the dynamic of the amplitude of the track in question. Which would be more obvious as to utilise when the audio signal clicks or does not come through the gate at all.

[Tricky-Loops]

No I disagree. I would see the gate is a guide. Compression or limiting would help you get the signal through the gate for an overal better mix. Use of compression or limiting would surely depend on the dynamic of the amplitude of the track in question. Which would be more obvious as to utilise when the audio signal clicks or does not come through the gate at all.

A gate is a part of loudness measuring tools (to measure the loudness range) but how do you want to get different tracks to a similar volume by using a simple gate?

[matthew_wehttam]

Well think of it like braces that hold up your trousers. They do not measure your waist size. They keep you from exposing your but crack to middle age women.

[matthew_wehttam]

Ie would keep all your levels evenish without having to keep returning to analysis tools. Saving time and perhaps money. Perhaps try some simple experiments. I am nowhere near professional, although I am learning fundamentals.

[Compyfox]

Sorry, but with a gate you'd limit the signals dynamic range to a certain "usable" range while both mixing and post mixing on mixdown.

Meaning... if you cut away everything below -40dBFS, and the maximum peak is -10dBFS, you have an effective dynamic peak range of -40dBFS to -10dBFS. Or, 30dB (peak). You'd basically only have use for loud material - and your signals are therefore very limited and have a small dynamic range. Why would you do that?


To have an even level, this is where a VU/RMS meter and digital peak meter somes into play, prior to actually mixing anything. If you want your individual signals to be of equal signal strength, then you need to do a technique called "gain staging".

How to pull that off (a recap):
Gate your signals or not. If you gate the signals "prior" to measuring with a VU meter (300ms unweighted) and a digital peak meter, chances are that you get a more clean and hot signal. But this doesn't matter in this case.

If you don't gate your signal, you level it in (faders at unity, you only mess with the input gain currently) so that it's either -18dBFS = 0VU = -18dB RMS (or whatever reference level you desire) for bass intensive material, and -9dBFS digital peak maximum for transient heavy material.

Then your source material is pretty much similar in terms of loudness/perceived volume. And now you can start mixing to your liking and totally forget the peak/VU meter on input.



Using a gate while mixdown really doesn't make sense unless you want to measure your dynamic range. There are no secrets that you miss (like "woha, it does some phase magic" or some other wild made up bollocks like that). It just doesn't make sense.

[Tricky-Loops]

Ie would keep all your levels evenish without having to keep returning to analysis tools. Saving time and perhaps money. Perhaps try some simple experiments. I am nowhere near professional, although I am learning fundamentals.

If you had a reference track, put a gate on it, searched for the right threshold, put the same gate on the other tracks (i. e. songs) and measured the loudness difference to the other tracks (by adjusting & comparing the thresholds) and you would then adjust the volume accordingly, it would make sense...

But wouldn't it be easier to use a loudness measuring plugin instead?

Maybe Compyfox can help me out...