Mix Challenge - Gossip and Discussion

[Uncle E]

Eric, please update the main post (the OP) with a topic name change and call this thread: "KVR Mix Challenge - Gossip and Discussion". This way people stop being confused.

This is done now. Sorry, I should have done that a long time ago. Thank you for pointing it out.

[kbaccki]

I request that you re-submit your mix without the added parts.

Sure.

Mix reposted sans extra drum hits.

[camsr]

Thread is on snooze

[Headphone]

This post is intentionally left blank.

[Headphone]

I'm really sorry about my last post.

[Compyfox]

Seriously... Headphone... use the other KVR sections to up your post count.

Everything else is considered (by most board rules) as rude and/or spamming. You still have PLENTY of time to up your post count until next week Monday (when the voting ideally starts). And you're also signed up since 2013 - you should know KVR's rules and general irks by now.



And once more as a reminder:
It is MANDATORY that all participants of the challenge post at least a couple of sentences what they did with the production. No information, no learn factor for bystanders and participants. That simple.

This is Challenge 01, we still cut a lot of slack. But we have to draw a line somewhere. By Mix Challenge 02, whoever doesn't stick to the rules will be disqualified without further explanation. Make yourself aware of that.




Furthermore:
Gossip and general discussion belongs in here, technical questions belong in here, questions belong in here.

If something is not self explanatory, then please raise your voice - and we try to answer as soon as it's possible to us.

[kbaccki]

By Mix Challenge 02, whoever doesn't stick to the rules will be disqualified without further explanation. Make yourself aware of that.

And I will add, from personal experience, read the rules caaaarefuulllly, do not skim them muttering to your self "yup... yup.. got it... yup... ok... gotcha... righto... check...".

If there are is any ambiguity or confusion, don't be shy about posting a question or two for clarification.

[Halma]

I would not mind if Loz his mix would be accepted. 1st contest, lots of talk, some confusion. I don´t have a problem with that.

Regards
Sebastian

[do_androids_dream]

Quoted from the mix entry thread..

But you're a fence sitter, you will listen to all tracks and don't make the flaws like everyone else!
No! I only download the content, I don't listen to any of the participants until the voting process.

This is a point of interest actually. Perhaps there should be a loose rule of not revealing any specific info after until the contest has finished to avoid folks getting perhaps what could be seen to be an unfair advantage by gleaning info like specific frequencies cuts etc.

[Uncle E]

This is a point of interest actually. Perhaps there should be a loose rule of not revealing any specific info after until the contest has finished to avoid folks getting perhaps what could be seen to be an unfair advantage by gleaning info like specific frequencies cuts etc.

I don't think we need to communicate too much depth about the actual settings we used but we do want to know what you used and why you chose to use what you used. For example, I'd like to know what you used to get that cool twanginess out of the bass but it's still up to me to figure out how to use those tools to get that sound.

Anyway, I'm going to leave your mix as disqualified based on the fact that if you were dealing with a client, they would immediately turn this mix down. I personally do like your mix but it's not the engineer's job to make production decisions, and leaving out a guitar solo is just about the fastest way to get yourself fired from a gig.

[do_androids_dream]

Anyway, I'm going to leave your mix as disqualified based on the fact that if you were dealing with a client, they would immediately turn this mix down. I personally do like your mix but it's not the engineer's job to make production decisions, and leaving out a guitar solo is just about the fastest way to get yourself fired from a gig.

Fair enough, but... "they would immediately turn this mix down" simply isn't a true statement. I've omitted plenty more from finished mixes for clients in the past because certain elements weren't adding anything to the track or were just simply not needed etc. It really depends on the client. Some will literally provide a palette to work from whereas others will already have a very clear vision of their song and it will be obvious that everything should be left as is. This is part of the problem with rule making in a business that often breaks the rules. Having said that though I can see what the purpose of the competition is now - more for learning the 'rules' first before learning how to break them I will play ball next time. I guess I should remove my entry now.

[hibidy]

So where do we stand with this? Is there a page? Are we just supposed to post here?

[Compyfox]

I have to both agree and disagree on this one.

The engineer does so much more these days compared to the classic engineer. The audio engineer (traditional training) is also a songwriter (read: he can read score sheets, he can understand what's going on, he can in theory RECONSTRUCT missing parts without consulting a third party musician), etc. Of course the main expertise is to mix and basically step back otherwise. But in a Business to Client (B2C) situation, chances are that the Engineer can be like "objective criticism on this one - I'd move this section, I'd change that section, etc" - to improve things.

If we go by the fact that Android (Loz) removed stuff to make a song more streamlined in his opinion, but he's now disqualified for it... We also need to disqualify kbaccki due to the fact that he "added" stuff without asking (another thing that would scare away the client). And in your case Eric... even you. Since you put in the metronome, even if it was not(!) in the demo track.

Technically that's a change of the rearrangement, you create a new "cut".
On that behalf, the "artistic freedom" can go as far as changing a song completely. So the lines are very, very thin.


Then again, Android/Loz disqualified himself due to the fact, that he re-uploaded the track with only slight editing changes. Even though the rules clearly stated "first entry is final". Not necessarily due to the artistic freedom (rearranging).

We still have until Sunday midnight. We can decide to also cut Android/Loz some slack as we did with kbaccki, or we disqualify more than one person. But I won't be as quiet with MC02.

As Captain Edward Teague said in Pirates of the Caribbean: At World's End, after he shot someone that disagreed with the "code book".

Code is the law.

And yes, I am some sort of a bad cop currently... though I'm used to that.

If we all want to have fun with that, and if we want to work on the same page, we need to have rules, stick to them and accept that we messed up if we did. That is just a real life scenario as investing hours to mix, and then the client is like "don't like it, I'll consult somebody else".



On the comments regarding my post over in the submission section:

This is a point of interest actually. Perhaps there should be a loose rule of not revealing any specific info after until the contest has finished to avoid folks getting perhaps what could be seen to be an unfair advantage by gleaning info like specific frequencies cuts etc.

I don't think we need to communicate too much depth about the actual settings we used but we do want to know what you used and why you chose to use what you used. For example, I'd like to know what you used to get that cool twanginess out of the bass but it's still up to me to figure out how to use those tools to get that sound.

Personally I'd write something along those lines:

"My focus was on <state focus>, and I used the following plugins to achieve that", then point out some highlights, what I changed to improve the overall sound, which sound I aimed at, maybe even post a screenshot of my mix console.

I think that is information enough rather than posting a list of plugins used on channel X. While those informations are clearly not to underestimate and absolutely helpful for bystanders, I think a simple screenshot of the setup does the trick just as much.


Just a hint:
Don't write too much - you can go as much into detail as you want if you win. But don't keep it too short either.


Maybe we should indeed create a specific rule for that. With a certain layout to use, adding a screenshot (which can vanish over time, just like the source material and the contest entries). Something along those lines that is beneficial for KVRians. I think I also need to add a rule, that the entries are at least to be maintained for 2-3 months post challenge. But then that would mean, we get a DEDICATED RULES thread. Longer, more detailed, even more hated.

But the submission, gossip and voting threads would stay clean and only focus on the rules that are important to the particular thread, while there is always a link to the main rules for reference.


Don't know... Opinions are welcome.



@hibidy:
This is the gossip thread, we have a submission thread that is also pinned.

[Uncle E]

Fair enough, but... "they would immediately turn this mix down" simply isn't a true statement. I've omitted plenty more from finished mixes for clients in the past because certain elements weren't adding anything to the track or were just simply not needed etc.

Even a guitar solo? I wouldn't dare trying so I guess I wouldn't really know if a client would accept that or not.

Honestly, the scenarios you're describing are production and you should be getting production or even remix credits in those cases.

Having said that though I can see what the purpose of the competition is now - more for learning the 'rules' first before learning how to break them

C'est la vie, mon ami.

[Compyfox]

Maybe we should start a fourth(!) challenge/competition after all?


But then I raise my voice even more for a DEDICATED SUB BOARD!
http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic ... 2&t=413299