KVR Audio

chickenhide · Post by **chickenhide** » Wed Jun 25, 2014 3:04 am

Hello all,

I'm just about finishing a DnB track I have been working on, and I had this sub bass line that stays in the 50-30hz range at most parts but I cannot hear the low C (32hz) on my sound system. Does this mean 32hz is just too low? Will that note not be heard on a larger sound system? Its frustrating because if I put the sub bass up an octave (65hz) , its not very bassy in the way that DnB should be. So I technically need these notes to stay where they are.

Any input would be appreciated.

lectrixboogaloo · Post by **lectrixboogaloo** » Wed Jun 25, 2014 3:47 am

I don't know from dnb, but a lot of bass music (rap, Miami, car bass tracks, so on) are made in F,F# or G for that reason. Maybe E for bass guitar sake or familiarity with that key.

You might could do some fancy processing to make C work somewhat. But, would probably be better to just transpose the tune to another key. Or, if you must stay in C for some reason, reharmonize your bassline to make the featured sub hits on G, shouldn't be too weird since it's the 5th.

Winstontaneous · Post by **Winstontaneous** » Wed Jun 25, 2014 4:52 am

chickenhide wrote:Hello all,

I'm just about finishing a DnB track I have been working on, and I had this sub bass line that stays in the 50-30hz range at most parts but I cannot hear the low C (32hz) on my sound system. Does this mean 32hz is just too low? Will that note not be heard on a larger sound system? Its frustrating because if I put the sub bass up an octave (65hz) , its not very bassy in the way that DnB should be. So I technically need these notes to stay where they are.

Any input would be appreciated.

Is your sub just a straight sine wave?
A sine only has one frequency (the fundamental) which disappears if it's below your speakers' frequency response. Do you know the frequency response of your speakers (specs would read something like "-6 dB at 40 Hz and 20kHz")?

Can you hear it with headphones?
Have you tried other sub waves or some kind of distortion to bring out more harmonics? It's not the same as having real sub bass on a bumping club system, but at least people listening on a laptop will know there's some bass in the track.

Winstontaneous · Post by **Winstontaneous** » Wed Jun 25, 2014 4:53 am

Winstontaneous wrote:
chickenhide wrote:Hello all,

I'm just about finishing a DnB track I have been working on, and I had this sub bass line that stays in the 50-30hz range at most parts but I cannot hear the low C (32hz) on my sound system. Does this mean 32hz is just too low? Will that note not be heard on a larger sound system? Its frustrating because if I put the sub bass up an octave (65hz) , its not very bassy in the way that DnB should be. So I technically need these notes to stay where they are.

Any input would be appreciated.
Is your sub just a straight sine wave?
A sine only has one frequency (the fundamental) which disappears if it's below your speakers' frequency response. Do you know the frequency response of your speakers (specs would read something like "-6 dB at 40 Hz and 20kHz")?

Can you hear it with headphones?
Have you tried other sub waves or some kind of distortion to bring out more harmonics? The ear can fill in the missing fundamental even when it's not audible. It's not the same as having real sub bass on a bumping club system, but at least people listening on a laptop will know there's some bass in the track.

JackQuade · Post by **JackQuade** » Wed Jun 25, 2014 2:27 pm

32Hz is very low -- on the low end of the lows. These are frequencies that are felt more than heard, and will only be audible on speakers whose freq response is low enough. Even monitors like the (choosing this because of popularity) Rokit KRK G3 8 inch monitors only have a frequency response down to 35 Hz (reportedly...). So, the advice given above about transposing is good advice to take.

Also, regarding the sine wave -- yep, true.

Something you could try (maybe, depending) is something like MaxxBass, which adds harmonics to essentially make the bass a little higher (that was a very brief summary of what it does, don't come yelling at me!) This may or may not work depending on the waveform. But since you didn't specify, I wanted to throw that out there.

chickenhide · Post by **chickenhide** » Wed Jun 25, 2014 7:04 pm

Yeah Its just a sine wave I have going. I think my only option is to transpose it then. What is the ideal range for sub bass then?

thomni · Post by **thomni** » Thu Jun 26, 2014 4:43 am

chickenhide wrote:Yeah Its just a sine wave I have going. I think my only option is to transpose it then. What is the ideal range for sub bass then?

Whatever you ideally have your music playing on should be a good rule of thumb. 40-80 is a safe bet for most somewhat-serious listeners.

I find that many kicks I use have some thump that is useful that low, and I certainly would prefer to keep it, so, yeah 30 is the limit of cost/gain for me.

ghettosynth · Post by **ghettosynth** » Thu Jun 26, 2014 4:50 am

chickenhide wrote:Yeah Its just a sine wave I have going. I think my only option is to transpose it then. What is the ideal range for sub bass then?

FYI: Low E on the four string bass is 41.2 Hz, low B on a 5 string is 30.9 Hz.

BertKoor · Post by **BertKoor** » Thu Jun 26, 2014 8:53 am

chickenhide wrote:Yeah Its just a sine wave I have going.

Hmmm.... Add just a little bit of distortion on it maybe, or take a square/saw waveform with a 12 or 18 dB/oct LP filter set to 50Hz, that won't remove all the harmonics. These harmonics will make it being heard even on tiny laptop speakers!

chickenhide wrote: I think my only option is to transpose it then. What is the ideal range for sub bass then?

Like said, a regular bass guitar goes down to an E of 41.2 Hz, 5-string basses go down to a B of 30.9 Hz. This always contains some harmonics!

camsr · Post by **camsr** » Thu Jun 26, 2014 9:07 am

No, it's not too low for bass.

this is ridiculous... lol.

thecontrolcentre · Post by **thecontrolcentre** » Thu Jun 26, 2014 9:11 am

Of course its not too low ... but you will need a sub to actually hear / feel it. A lot of DnB features subbass.

lectrixboogaloo · Post by **lectrixboogaloo** » Thu Jun 26, 2014 10:30 am

camsr wrote:No, it's not too low for bass.

this is ridiculous... lol.

OK, but the practical things to take:

1) you can expect a random sampling of decent subwoofers to reproduce 'subby' bass at around full power with minimal distortion from 40-60hz.

2) you can't mix what you can't hear.

tehlord · Post by **tehlord** » Thu Jun 26, 2014 10:42 am

lectrixboogaloo wrote:
you can't mix what you can't hear.

Quite

Even consumer monitors that say they go down that low almost certainly don't with any kind of useful accuracy.

camsr · Post by **camsr** » Thu Jun 26, 2014 11:22 am

You can mix what you can't hear, using a spectrum analyzer, it's extremely simple and I've done that for years. I think you are confusing the issue, but it was moot to begin with.

Doug1978 · Post by **Doug1978** » Thu Jun 26, 2014 11:25 am

chickenhide wrote:...What is the ideal range for sub bass then?

42.

Is 32hz TOO low in a track?