Your (sample based) hi-hats suck. Actually, all of your drums do.

[itsclipping]

Why? This: http://itsclipping.org/2014/06/30/hi-ha ... chine-gun/

The article uses FL Studio for the examples but the basic ideas are the same. Add more variation, be it timing, velocity, timbre.. etc.

Use multisampled kits and sounds where you can.

It doesn't suit everything, and some things call for actual monotonous repetition, but the ear soon bores of the same sounds. Continually vary your sounds with methods/properties mentioned above, and modulation,FX.. etc. makes for a much more interesting and less tiresome listening experience.

If your plugins have randomize functions, become familiar with them. Let's make electronic music more 'music' than 'electronic'.

Thanks for reading.

[JCJR]

It could be worth to actually invest in a hihat, a snare, and a good sounding ride and splash cymbal. Along with some basic hand percussion, tamborine, shakers, finger cymbals and ya gotta have cowbell!!

For folks who can't or won't involve a drummer in projects. Kick and toms in my dumb opinion can sound quite acceptable in samples, but the above list are things not nearly as expressive in samples as the real thing. Even a humble set of finger cymbals can make a remarkable variety of tones and effects.

Even a thumb fingered sequencer nerd can get purt good use out of the live instruments. Spend a few minutes recording a horribly played part (but with good tones), and then spend a few hours in the digital editor cleaning it up. Or alternately, hire a drummer.

[lfm]

It could be worth to actually invest in a hihat, a snare, and a good sounding ride and splash cymbal. Along with some basic hand percussion, tamborine, shakers, finger cymbals and ya gotta have cowbell!!

For folks who can't or won't involve a drummer in projects. Kick and toms in my dumb opinion can sound quite acceptable in samples, but the above list are things not nearly as expressive in samples as the real thing. Even a humble set of finger cymbals can make a remarkable variety of tones and effects.

Generally what is missing in drums samples are expressions enough.

With acoustic drums you can grap anything and make a hit - and it will sound different.

So getting the Toontrack SDX for Superior Drummer with Roots and also the brushes, rods and mallets thingy you have a few more anyway.

[The Aircrash Proyect]

I like how the tutorial in the article also kind of sucks...

Generally what is missing in drums samples are expressions enough.

With acoustic drums you can grap anything and make a hit - and it will sound different.

There are reasons (budget... and time) to try to imitate real things with software but as real as you can get, it still somewhat losses, for me, the whole point of using software: to make that type of sound that doesn't exist anywhere else. For me its only about that, not about how good you can make them sound.

[cryophonik]

Let's make electronic music more 'music' than 'electronic'.

Rhetorical question, but why? Why can't/shouldn't electronic music be more electronic and less organic? Electronic music generally isn't about trying to make it sound as real as possible and those obviously fake sounds are often exactly what many of us want in our electronic music - i.e., it's what makes electronic music electronic.

(not that I necessarily disagree with you, but it's worth consideration)

[BERFAB]

Let's make electronic music more 'music' than 'electronic'.

Rhetorical question, but why? Why can't/shouldn't electronic music be more electronic and less organic? Electronic music generally isn't about trying to make it sound as real as possible and those obviously fake sounds are often exactly what many of us want in our electronic music - i.e., it's what makes electronic music electronic.

(not that I necessarily disagree with you, but it's worth consideration)

We are lucky enough to live in a time where it is possible to reproduce almost any sound you hear in your head with minimal effort. And the sound of recorded music has always, in part, been shaped by the available technology.

There was a time when entire drum kits were recorded live, as is, on one mono track. In fact, an entire band performance would be recorded on just one or two mics. Now we have stereo effected tracks for each kit piece, plus additional overheads and room mics, complete with busses, sub busses and side chains. Not to mention quantization, drum replacement and autotune technology. And so, the sound is completely different than back in 1968.

I agree that there is no longer a "realistic" standard to shoot for when creating music. Not just for drums, but any instrument. If a modelled horn played through a MIDI guitar has a pleasing and unique sound, why bother trying to make it sound like an acoustic horn? Likewise, as cryophonik points out, the 808/909 sounds were far from realistic, but contributed to a very enduring musical genre/era that lives on to this day. And today's non-organic sounds may/can spawn similar creative journeys. Embrace it.

Cheers
-B

[burkek]

Let's make electronic music more 'music' than 'electronic'.

Rhetorical question, but why? Why can't/shouldn't electronic music be more electronic and less organic? Electronic music generally isn't about trying to make it sound as real as possible and those obviously fake sounds are often exactly what many of us want in our electronic music - i.e., it's what makes electronic music electronic.

(not that I necessarily disagree with you, but it's worth consideration)

I agree 100% with the statement above and tire of people wishing to impart traditional instrument sensibilities onto electronic music. I also brisk when people say "A real drummer couldn't play that!" No sh*t. They completely miss the point.

KEv

[itsclipping]

Rhetorical question, but why? Why can't/shouldn't electronic music be more electronic and less organic? Electronic music generally isn't about trying to make it sound as real as possible and those obviously fake sounds are often exactly what many of us want in our electronic music - i.e., it's what makes electronic music electronic.

(not that I necessarily disagree with you, but it's worth consideration)

Great point man. I totally know where you are coming from, and I'm not trying to be elitist at all, or talk down electronic music in general.

It's not necessarily though, specifically at 'replicating real instruments'. It's about adding sonic variation to appeal to our ears. Ears HATE monotony and repetition solely, think of a saw-wave with one oscillator, at a constant pitch and volume. Just hold down a loud note on a saw on any digital synth and see how long you can bare the noise of it. It becomes painful.

Yes now do this with a few detuned ones and a bit of reverb, and what happens? magical supersaws lol. The sound is now much nicer and interesting to our ears.

I like how the tutorial in the article also kind of sucks...

Would you mind telling me how it sucks so I can improve anything similar I do in future, rather than just be sarcastically critical/negative? Thanks.

My own title is being a bit tongue in cheek indeed, and may first seem insulting, but it's simply to illustrate a point and make people consider it, rather than just be offensive. And I clearly outline why. If people already know or are doing this kind of thing they realize that indeed they don't suck. And if they hadn't ever considered some of these subtle variation, then this is exactly who the article is intended to help in the first place. And if you know better, maybe just a gentle reminder..

Generally what is missing in drums samples are expressions enough.

With acoustic drums you can grap anything and make a hit - and it will sound different.

Exactly. It's the chaos and randomness and unpredictability of it all. It's why we hear and read analog vs digital wars all the time too. Analog introduces subtle chaotic variation, which can sound nice. (And can also sound bad by the same token.)

There are reasons (budget... and time) to try to imitate real things with software but as real as you can get, it still somewhat losses, for me, the whole point of using software: to make that type of sound that doesn't exist anywhere else. For me its only about that, not about how good you can make them sound.

Fair enough man. Everyone has different motives for doing things. I'm not saying every noise or sound generated electronically is bad or people should GTFO their laptops and go back to playing the flugelhorn or cello. It's just about adding more sonic variation into digital/programmed audio, because that's generally what our ears like. Changing timbres and level variations and more subtle detail changes is more pleasant to listen to in general (IMO) and maybe that's just me subjectively.. But I don't think it's just me, I honestly think it's part of being human.

If you wanna just use static loops and levels and settings on everything that's cool too. But in my experience when I program lots of subtle sonic variation in, people much prefer it.

Whatever floats your boat.

[highkoo]

Oh great points all around!

Im a big fan of adding random tiny fluctuations, but I am definitely also an electronic purist, and I have no desire to hear a real drummer play a house beat.
Imo, there is a range between audible to the ear, and subconsciously noticeable to the brain. Even the slightest variation is caught by the ear, imo, and is enough. It doesnt have to be a fancy round robin sample, it can be a 2% variation on a single parameter, and even if the ear doesnt immediately pick up on it, the brain wont get bored as fast.
Or at least that is what my brain tells me.

[itsclipping]

I agree 100% with the statement above and tire of people wishing to impart traditional instrument sensibilities onto electronic music. I also brisk when people say "A real drummer couldn't play that!" No sh*t. They completely miss the point.

KEv

Well yes, sometimes they can. I know what you mean, I have a drummer friend and it's interesting his reaction sometimes to things I do, and how he listens, compared to say other people who have no clue about music theory or production etc.

It's about introducing more concepts for sonic variation though. Not just 'realism' or 'humanization' - but sonic variation. This is the key thing I'm trying to draw attention to is all.

Basically, if you know this stuff, you can choose to implement it or not. But if you don't, then you don't have the option.

Even the slightest variation is caught by the ear, imo, and is enough. It doesnt have to be a fancy round robin sample, it can be a 2% variation on a single parameter, and even if the ear doesnt immediately pick up on it, the brain wont get bored as fast.

Yep, totally what I'm getting at here. It's not about 'realism' moreso, it's about adding variation to keep the ears and brain interested.

My drummer friend may miss my point, yes. But he listens for him, and has his own point too. Who is right? Thing is, there's no right or wrong, and all interpretations are subjective. If it sounds good... (you know the rest)

Don't take it the wrong way guys n gals, of course I love my electronic music in all it's 'artificial' glory. I started playing guitar many many moons ago but hardly play guitar these days. Maybe pick it up for a twang once every few months, or jam with people and get frustrated I have no chops coz' I'm out of practice and my hands won't co-operate with my brain lol. I'd more rather use my DAW it's more fun and more freeing in a lot of ways. And I can play it at 3AM in my cans

And then, sometimes I'll record the guitar and do stuff with it in the DAW. Its all music and valid, there is no limitations or right or wrong. And there's only the limitations of our imgination as you say BERFAB.. I agree with you all, that music is very much about making cool sounds that you like.

Likewise, as cryophonik points out, the 808/909 sounds were far from realistic, but contributed to a very enduring musical genre/era that lives on to this day. And today's non-organic sounds may/can spawn similar creative journeys. Embrace it.

Cheers
-B

Hear hear bro. Viva la electronica!

[cryophonik]

And, just to follow up, it really was more of a rhetorical question for the sake of discussion. I actually do a lot of things you've discussed to make my music less static, and I like to mix electronic and organic sounds in my own tracks. But, I think it's important not to lose sight of how many great tracks have been made using strict quantization, static-sounding drums, etc. These days, I kind it sorta refreshing to find music that sounds like old-school synthpop/new wave.

[CableChannel]

Thread title is bullshit

[arkmabat]

Hold on, not just expression but the stick sliding around, the drum being hit at a different angle or spot on the drumhead... I like James Aly's SDSV clone because the hihat pitch is actively modulated.

[RunBeerRun]

My drums definitely suck. But it's better than emulating a hardware experience. Where's the adventure in using WalMart drum package No.5 that you bought in a store?

Look at me, I'm just like you.

[itsclipping]

Thread title is bullshit

<troll> Because it's true? </troll>

Like I say, if you know or think about this stuff then you can implement it, but if you don't, then you can't, it's just about having more choices of sounds really.

My drums definitely suck. But it's better than emulating a hardware experience. Where's the adventure in using WalMart drum package No.5 that you bought in a store?

Look at me, I'm just like you.

Well I must say, long term fan of your royal suckiness here btw RunBeerRun. Thanks for all you've shared with ppl with your VSTs and stuff. Speaking of, holy crap! I just saw how much new stuff on your wordpress site since I last checked out some of your stuff a while back. You've been busy! Cheers.

Hold on, not just expression but the stick sliding around, the drum being hit at a different angle or spot on the drumhead... I like James Aly's SDSV clone because the hihat pitch is actively modulated.

Sounds good.

Linking parameters to slow moving (or fast, whatever) LFOs is another cool thing you can do.. eg link the master pitch to an LFO.. link peak controllers to different parameters..

Go listen to Ibiza to Miami (the original 'Pryda Snare' track I think. Could be wrong.) Listen to that 'Pryda snare' everyone speaks of. You'll find it's not even static or the same snare. There's some kinda filtering going on, (like a lightly sweeping peak/cut on EQ with a medium Q, or maybe a flanger or phaser, I dunno exactly what?) Every single hit is different.

How many people actually catch onto this motion though? When I've seen people discuss it, it's always just about it being a big compressed gated reverbed snare or whatever.. but there's some more to it than that on a quite subtle level. Eric Prydz gets it.

I'm not even really into bigroom or mainroom or whatever Eric Prydz is myself anyway, but I can listen to it, and the snare throughout that track is a good example of subtle variation done well.