KVR Audio

zbest56 · Post by **zbest56** » Sat Sep 17, 2016 8:55 am

So, for quite a while I've been trying to figure out how to make my mixes better by trial and error and basically just messing around. Not sure its working. For soundcloud upload I always run my songs through an ozone preset, which usually gets a bit of modification. I'm fully aware that I can't get professional quality mastering without analogue gear and many many years of education and experience so I don't try, but I what I can to make it sound just a bit more presentable. I guess I just want to ask for general advice. I always spend several weeks on my mixes, generally coming back to them after a few days of listening to what inspires me to make it easier to pick out the imperfections, and within a few days of upload I always end up unhappy with the sound. I'm not sure whether its mixing, my ghetto mastering, or a combo of both.

All three of these songs are pretty similar, the top one is older and the bottom one is newer.

https://soundcloud.com/pyramid-complex/ ... -tick-tock

https://soundcloud.com/pyramid-complex/ ... plex-remix

https://soundcloud.com/pyramid-complex/ ... plex-drift

With all three of these, this was the general sound I was going for during the main sections:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s8XIgR5OGJc

Any advice would be super helpful. Thanks in advance to those who take the time to listen and give feedback.

neverwhere2410 · Post by **neverwhere2410** » Sat Sep 17, 2016 1:59 pm

It may or may not help, but I stumbled on this guide yesterday that a guy on reddit wrote. It focuses on mastering and I found the parts on EQ'ing during the mastering process to be really helpful. He leans on specific plugins, but I found it pretty easy to translate the concepts to various plugins I already own.

https://jonvilleproduction.com/2016/09/ ... mastering/

do_androids_dream · Post by **do_androids_dream** » Sat Sep 17, 2016 2:12 pm

The most well balanced of those 3 - mix/frequency wise - is the Wiz Khalifa remix. The other two have problems in the 'mud' area - basically 250 - 800 Hz area. I would use the Wiz Khalifa track as a reference for the other two..

Also, I strongly suggest to anyone, who cares about their music, to use people who do mastering for a living (yes, I know I am one

). There is no substitute for experience - you can't replace experience with plugins.. Running a track through an Ozone preset without really knowing what you're doing is probably doing more harm than leaving it un'mastered'. Spending perhaps £20-30 on each track will save you lots of money and time in the long run - you can't wear all the hats in music making imo. If you're a musician spend your time making music - not learning another process that takes 10 years at least.. and you don't 'need' analogue gear at all

thecontrolcentre · Post by **thecontrolcentre** » Sat Sep 17, 2016 2:56 pm

I don't know where you got the idea that you must have analog mastering gear, but its just not true. What you do need is good monitoring in a good room, and preferably someone who knows what they're doing.

Studio Saturn · Post by **Studio Saturn** » Sat Sep 17, 2016 7:52 pm

do_androids_dream wrote:The most well balanced of those 3 - mix/frequency wise - is the Wiz Khalifa remix. The other two have problems in the 'mud' area - basically 250 - 800 Hz area. I would use the Wiz Khalifa track as a reference for the other two..

Also, I strongly suggest to anyone, who cares about their music, to use people who do mastering for a living (yes, I know I am one ). There is no substitute for experience - you can't replace experience with plugins.. Running a track through an Ozone preset without really knowing what you're doing is probably doing more harm than leaving it un'mastered'. Spending perhaps £20-30 on each track will save you lots of money and time in the long run - you can't wear all the hats in music making imo. If you're a musician spend your time making music - not learning another process that takes 10 years at least.. and you don't 'need' analogue gear at all

As I appreciate and admire the Mastering engineer job, they are as good as the engineer make them to be. If they are given a crappy sounding mix there is no way they can change it into professional. It starts from the mixer and then the mastering engineer will take to another level which is ready to ship. It is always good to send darker not so bright mix to the mastering it will give them the ability to put their magic.

do_androids_dream · Post by **do_androids_dream** » Sat Sep 17, 2016 7:59 pm

Studio Saturn wrote:As I appreciate and admire the Mastering engineer job, they are as good as the engineer make them to be. If they are given a crappy sounding mix there is no way they can change it into professional.

More or less agreed - so you advise the client of mix changes that would be beneficial. But, if the multitracks are long gone (as if often the case when people send tracks to be mastered), you have to work magic if the mix is less than perfect - and you might be surprised at what can be done.

Studio Saturn wrote:It is always good to send darker not so bright mix to the mastering it will give them the ability to put their magic.

I have to correct you there - that's not true at all. You send your track simply as you want it to sound.

Studio Saturn · Post by **Studio Saturn** » Sat Sep 17, 2016 9:01 pm

If I have a track in my hand the way that I wanted it to sound, why do I have to send it to a mastering engineer then?

do_androids_dream · Post by **do_androids_dream** » Sat Sep 17, 2016 9:10 pm

Studio Saturn wrote:If I have a track in my hand the way that I wanted it to sound, why do I have to send it to a mastering engineer then?

Well.. the answer could be that you don't

- If you are very well practiced at making the final product you want to hear. But for most people, passing your music on to someone who makes music 'suitable for distribution' is the wisest move you can make imo. It's a discussion for a different thread really..

MogwaiBoy · Post by **MogwaiBoy** » Mon Sep 19, 2016 6:31 am

In my experience I've found the professional Mastering process to be quite hit and miss. In the sub-$100 per track range it's really a mixed bag. Can you be sure they'll detect and remove DC offset? Will your master come back with absolutely no intersample peaks? In my experience... you can't be sure. The only true way to be sure is to either spend the BIG bucks and get a bigshot professional... or try to learn it yourself. Many masterers are 'In The Box' now so analog outboard gear is not even an option.

It's a classic case of getting what you pay for. I don't want to put you off.. You should shoot one of those tracks to a few different masterers (if you can afford it) and see what happens. You are in the presence of a good one right here (Do Androids Dream, aka Loz

)

Also I think your stuff sounds fantastic and nicely polished. Nice sense of space with the instrument reverbs. That Chainsmokers track is heavilly sidechained as I'm sure you know.

do_androids_dream · Post by **do_androids_dream** » Tue Sep 20, 2016 12:11 am

MogwaiBoy wrote:In my experience I've found the professional Mastering process to be quite hit and miss. In the sub-$100 per track range it's really a mixed bag. Can you be sure they'll detect and remove DC offset? Will your master come back with absolutely no intersample peaks? In my experience... you can't be sure. The only true way to be sure is to either spend the BIG bucks and get a bigshot professional... or try to learn it yourself. Many masterers are 'In The Box' now so analog outboard gear is not even an option.

Some mixers do learn their own mastering process - folks that really know the sound of their genre and what they want to hear - but it's few that manage to do it successfully - and it doesn't necessarily mean they're mastering engineers - it means they know how to get their own music to the level they want - not necessarily anyone else's. If an artist is motivated to do this there's nothing wrong with it - they just need to be prepared for a long learning process that will go far beyond using presets in something like Ozone and may take away plenty of time from music making.

MogwaiBoy wrote:It's a classic case of getting what you pay for. I don't want to put you off.. You should shoot one of those tracks to a few different masterers (if you can afford it) and see what happens. You are in the presence of a good one right here (Do Androids Dream, aka Loz )

Really, thanks man

Have I mastered any of your music before? Did you appear on any of the Touched compilations?

MogwaiBoy · Post by **MogwaiBoy** » Tue Sep 20, 2016 8:46 am

Yes : ) And you sold me Fabfilter Pro-Q 2 which has been the best plugin I have ever laid hands on!

do_androids_dream · Post by **do_androids_dream** » Tue Sep 20, 2016 9:46 am

MogwaiBoy wrote:Yes : ) And you sold me Fabfilter Pro-Q 2 which has been the best plugin I have ever laid hands on!

Which artist/track were you? I didn't sell you Pro-Q actually.. I know that because I've never owned it myself

EDIT - just been through my PM's - it was bx_meter I sold you and yeah I remember your track now from T2 I believe

At OP - sorry for slight thread hijack - are we going to hear back from you for follow up?

DJbrimLo · Post by **DJbrimLo** » Thu Sep 22, 2016 3:18 am

I believe Patience is the ticket in this industry. Regardless of what pay scale you may currently find yourself in. If you don't have a lot of patience then I suggest you have a lot of money and are good at giving detailed instructions. I say that because over the years I have struggled with my own Production, Mixing, Mastering and such but I am starting to feel I understand what is going on. I feel like taking my time to properly learn how to mix has vastly improved my composition skills. I take a very strategic approach to producing which in turn can help my mixes.

Freebies from Reputable Companies.
Companies like iZotope have a Mastering Month Webinar Series that is open to anyone, not just their purchasing customer base. With proper note taking you can wrangle up quite a few Tricks of the Mix from Waves. The Blog from Universal Audio has quite a variety of topics discussed. Obviously each of these promote their tools, as they should, but you if you listen carefully you can learn a lot about the desired effect from an 1176 and from there find a way to get similar results with many different tools.

Katelyn · Post by **Katelyn** » Mon Sep 26, 2016 12:41 am

I'd say you don't need analog gear unless you are going for an analog quality to the sound, but that isn't always "better".

And you don't necessarily need a 'proper' education, plenty of people are self taught and do well for themselves. And some of that requires the experimentation like you already do, but it also takes a lot of reading and trying things out for yourself.

risome · Post by **risome** » Mon Sep 26, 2016 12:58 am

Learn about high frequencies ..dont do too many..read about https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fletcher–Munson_curves
Don't make sausage waveforms with no dynamics
Use good plugins and have very good ref speakers- https://www.plugin-alliance.com/en/prod ... er_v2.html
Ref a mix you really like and aim to get your mix the same
these are just a few tips which may help along the learning curve

Mixing/Mastering Advice