Finally Time To Get Serious

[wagtunes]

I don't think most of us here have ever mixed a track with real studio recorded vocals, so that's quite a specific question. Are you in a recording band?

No, I'm a composer and I write songs with vocals. Right now, I'm using Vocaloid for my vocals which are fairly close to a human voice. Actually, Vocaloid is a little easier because you don't quite have the dynamic range of a human voice with the wide peaks and valleys. Well, you could. But you'd have to work damn hard at it.

If you want, check out my Vocaloid playlist on Soundcloud.

https://soundcloud.com/steven-wagenheim ... -originals

[el-bo (formerly ebow)]

My favorite youtube channel: Mixbus TV.
You'll get a good explanation there about those.

Completely forgot about this guy (I swear I was sub'd ). Remember him spreading the 'MJUC' love

He also has a huge compressor series

[Boone777]

You will need time to spot the needed frequencies your ear needs to develop. Go macro when you start the micro details you will eventually hear. And also very important: finish your mixes! As crappy as they may sound. The fact that you go through all the steps from start to finish will gain you invaluable experience. Not all vocals need to be boosted or cut it depends on many things: high pitch, low pitch, the mix, microphones used, etc. Chris Lord Alge does the vocal in the end. So it's being tweek in context, always with the mix running. So it's worth experimenting if you get better results finishing with vocals instead of carving the mix around. Just another way of doing things. Getting your vocals in with a great preamp and a great comp makes the job easier. Treated room is a must. Way before buying tons of equipment. Dont do as I did invest there early. Try various techniques for mixing vocals sometimes one trick works sometimes another. Saturation, little delay widener, little or a lot or no reverb at all. Try to eq as less as possible on vocals if possible (no rules) wide curves, pleaseant EQs. So many things to learn...

[wagtunes]

You will need time to spot the needed frequencies your ear needs to develop. Go macro when you start the micro details you will eventually hear. And also very important: finish your mixes! As crappy as they may sound. The fact that you go through all the steps from start to finish will gain you invaluable experience. Not all vocals need to be boosted or cut it depends on many things: high pitch, low pitch, the mix, microphones used, etc. Chris Lord Alge does the vocal in the end. So it's being tweek in context, always with the mix running. So it's worth experimenting if you get better results finishing with vocals instead of carving the mix around. Just another way of doing things. Getting your vocals in with a great preamp and a great comp makes the job easier. Treated room is a must. Way before buying tons of equipment. Dont do as I did invest there early. Try various techniques for mixing vocals sometimes one trick works sometimes another. Saturation, little delay widener, little or a lot or no reverb at all. Try to eq as less as possible on vocals if possible (no rules) wide curves, pleaseant EQs. So many things to learn...

Well, my "vocals" are all ITB so room treatment isn't even an issue as well as mics and all that other stuff.

[Boone777]

You mix with headphones? Where do you record vocals?

[wagtunes]

You mix with headphones? Where do you record vocals?

The vocals are not recorded via mics. They're, well, here...

https://net.vocaloid.com/en/

[JoeCat]

Wags, I don't do much with vocals, but it when I do, it's tough as hell getting the sound right.

There are some great articles (for free) along with examples, on Sound on Sound's site. Example:

http://www.soundonsound.com/techniques/ ... ompression

Matter of fact, when I'm searching for mixing/production info, a lot of times I just narrow the search to Sound on Sound ala "vocals site:soundonsound.com"

Not courses per se of course (no pun), but lot's of great free info.

Best thing I did when it came to vocals though, was to listen to some stems of vocals minus the music. As a matter of fact, this helped with everything. I'm always amazed by how different vocal tracks sound solo compared to what I think I'm hearing in the mix. And of course visually see where the spectrum is, what the dynamic range is, etc. Even if you don't know how it was achieved it's great insight - for all types of tracks of course.

[wagtunes]

Wags, I don't do much with vocals, but it when I do, it's tough as hell getting the sound right.

There are some great articles (for free) along with examples, on Sound on Sound's site. Example:

http://www.soundonsound.com/techniques/ ... ompression

Matter of fact, when I'm searching for mixing/production info, a lot of times I just narrow the search to Sound on Sound ala "vocals site:soundonsound.com"

Not courses per se of course (no pun), but lot's of great free info.

Best thing I did when it came to vocals though, was to listen to some stems of vocals minus the music. As a matter of fact, this helped with everything. I'm always amazed by how different vocal tracks sound solo compared to what I think I'm hearing in the mix. And of course visually see where the spectrum is, what the dynamic range is, etc. Even if you don't know how it was achieved it's great insight - for all types of tracks of course.

Well, I actually have an advantage with these vocals. Vocaloid is pretty consistent as far a timber, volume, etc. The only problems occur with the very low notes that seem to get lost in the arrangement, probably because of overlapping frequencies. That's where I need to learn how to, well, do whatever it is I need to do to get those low parts to still be heard over the arrangement. And of course you still want everything to sound like it's "inside the arrangement" and not "sitting on top of it."

But at least I have a consistent singer to work with.

Listen to some of the examples and you'll hear what I mean.

[llze]

i really like this one: http://www.tischmeyer-mastering.de/pwde ... =1&lang=EN

tought me more than whole SAE audio engineering course regarding mixing.

It's based on cubase, but valid for any DAW really.

[Drogers]

Producertech has training videos.

http://www.loopmasters.com/content_types/6

There are mastering classes and an EQ class. I bought the EQ and it is very helpful so far particularly on tips for setting up my DAW for easier mastering.

[kenobi77]

A little late but did you catch any of the tutorial episodes that PureMix were streaming yesterday? They were showing excerpts from the vids through the day.

I caught one of Andrew Scheps tutorials, part of mixing a Marley song. He articlulated his thought process throughout, which was the real value in the video IMO. What I took away from it was that he's obviously incredibly skilled but that there wasn't any magic to it, even though the end result sounds like it. He was making quick informed decisions from his years of practical experience and experimentation, and sometimes he'd back track when the results proved otherwise.

I'm with Boone777, that the ear needs to develop. Of course it's an expression and it's really brain training and it's hard! The way I see it is we're listening and evaluating on an emotional level, the mapping that to a logical framework to decide where the "fault" lies and then deciding a specific action, and then flicking back to emotional evaluation. Keeping perspective and focus is incredibly hard, especially when our ability to find the "fault" isnt great and has to be developed with experience. And dont forget we're fighting our ears all the way, as they're basically designed to adapt to whatever we are hearing

(Apologies for the DIY pseudo science, the fighting our ears part is actual accepted science though)

[wagtunes]

A little late but did you catch any of the tutorial episodes that PureMix were streaming yesterday? They were showing excerpts from the vids through the day.

I caught one of Andrew Scheps tutorials, part of mixing a Marley song. He articlulated his thought process throughout, which was the real value in the video IMO. What I took away from it was that he's obviously incredibly skilled but that there wasn't any magic to it, even though the end result sounds like it. He was making quick informed decisions from his years of practical experience and experimentation, and sometimes he'd back track when the results proved otherwise.

I'm with Boone777, that the ear needs to develop. Of course it's an expression and it's really brain training and it's hard! The way I see it is we're listening and evaluating on an emotional level, the mapping that to a logical framework to decide where the "fault" lies and then deciding a specific action, and then flicking back to emotional evaluation. Keeping perspective and focus is incredibly hard, especially when our ability to find the "fault" isnt great and has to be developed with experience. And dont forget we're fighting our ears all the way, as they're basically designed to adapt to whatever we are hearing

(Apologies for the DIY pseudo science, the fighting our ears part is actual accepted science though)

Sorry, I missed the stream. Was busy. And yes, this is all very hard.

[kenobi77]

not sure if it came off as patronising with the talk of it being hard to do. What I was trying to convey was that I find it hard work when trying to mix, literally more tiring, which I feel is down to how much my brain is trying to process. Some will no doubt have a better aptitude for it, but I'm not one of them that's for sure.

Until recently I held a romanticised view that all things musical would/should come in a state of flow and I was just approaching it wrong, but I now believe certain elements of the creative process (different for everyone) are more taxing and harder to learn than others. So those parts, like mixing, I accept that I just have to step through slower with small goals and not for long periods. Overtime I should get better and faster results. Ofcourse, the obligatory, YMMV.

[wagtunes]

not sure if it came off as patronising with the talk of it being hard to do. What I was trying to convey was that I find it hard work when trying to mix, literally more tiring, which I feel is down to how much my brain is trying to process. Some will no doubt have a better aptitude for it, but I'm not one of them that's for sure.

Until recently I held a romanticised view that all things musical would/should come in a state of flow and I was just approaching it wrong, but I now believe certain elements of the creative process (different for everyone) are more taxing and harder to learn than others. So those parts, like mixing, I accept that I just have to step through slower with small goals and not for long periods. Overtime I should get better and faster results. Ofcourse, the obligatory, YMMV.

Patronizing? Not at all. Cold hard truth is more like it.

[nineofkings]

One thing I've found that's important to getting good mixes: listen critically and compare pro tracks to your mixes. Determine what sounds good and why in the pro tracks. How do they translate in different speakers or headphones? How do the vocals sit in the mix? Where do the instruments sit in the frequency range?

Really listening to the frequency balance of pro songs can help you check your knowledge of EQ. I'm often surprised, for example, to hear how much mid range is scooped out of instrumentals to make room for lead vocals. Also surprising is how much compression, even limiting, you can get away with on some tracks.

It's important to find a unique voice in writing and sound design and production. But in mixing, it's ok and even necessary to refer to some kind of standard.