KVR Audio

Bevoss · Post by **Bevoss** » Sat Jul 07, 2007 9:09 am

Lunch Money wrote:Well, not all opinions are valid, Bevoss. You might be right that Reaper has EQUAL potential for unclutter (I can't say for sure, not being a Reaper user), but it's objective fact that being able to reduce your view to get rid of everything except for the tracks (the least possible amount of clutter while still maintaining the purpose of a sequencer) is about as uncluttered as it gets.

But you can do that...

... apart from the tcp, the smallest it will go is a couple of cm on the left...virtually clutter free.

You do know you can hide the mixer/docker right? That's usually how I have it, it toggles on/off with a keystroke.

Of course your valid opinion carries more weight then my user knowledge, so...

Lunch Money · Post by **Lunch Money** » Sat Jul 07, 2007 9:26 am

I'm rather convinced that you didn't actually read my post at all. I'll let you have another crack at it.

Try really hard, I know you can do it!

koolkeys · Post by **koolkeys** » Sat Jul 07, 2007 9:54 am

Well, if Tracktion is cluttered, then Reaper is a mess(IMO). Tracktion can be as clean or as involved as you want. It's more just a personal opinion, of course. But I find it hard to see Tracktion as more cluttered then Reaper. But I feel the same about Reaper as you feel about Tracktion. Nice app with a less then stellar interface. And regardless of what some so-called "experts" might think, interface DOES matter.

But regardless, I'm not behind the times. I have tried Reaper as recently as today. You open an FX window. You want to dock that window. Ok, great. Just one more docked window among many others that may likely pop up during your work. And still no way to keep it visible while working on something else. What I'm wanting is something like Tracktion and Sonar, where every track has it's own bin that is visible at all times. I don't have to switch tabs. I don't have to go any further then right on the same screen as I was on before that, no matter where that is. I don't WANT floating FX or instrument windows.

But worse then that, I found myself constantly resizing the docker with each tab. If I attach the tabbed area to the main window, it doesn't even open up far enough to view the whole UI of even the Reaper plugins. So you either have to scroll to see the plugin, or you have to un-attach the docker, which leaves it in the way.

Also, if the FX window is supposed to change when you change tracks, it sure isn't on by default, cause it doesn't change for me. And if this is the case, then I would think that the way it is now is NOT as logical.

As for shortcuts, the ability to remap isn't anything new. But I still don't like the defaults. I'm not the only one who has complained about them. But this could all come down to preference. I'm not a mouse clicker for everything, and I hate right click menus. Tracktion's default hotkeys are the most logical that I've ever seen.

I don't hate Reaper, but these are my honest opinions about the interface. These things drive me nuts, and are a few of the reasons why Reaper has never worked for me. I've tried, honestly, and not just for 30 minutes. You know that I've hung around the Reaper forums a bit, and I know that I've tried PLENTY at getting to know Reaper.

Not everyone likes Tracktion either. And that is fine.

We're just going to have to chalk this up as "improvements that would help make Brent like Reaper more", whether they are relevant or not to others(which they may not be).

Brent

Bevoss · Post by **Bevoss** » Sat Jul 07, 2007 10:08 am

Well, I don't use the docker much...my windows are floating, togglable, and saved with screensets, 'cause I like maximum viewing area. So you don't need to dock or resize windows, it's your choice...more useful if you have dual or triple monitors I think. But from my viewpoint, I get a lot more screen area in Reaper, with any other views a keystroke away, ie screensets. Different strokes of course, but some of your comments show me you don't have full understanding of Reaper, same with me about Tracktion. Trying a program is nowhere near using it IM(valid?)O.

Shortcuts aren't new, but some of the recent ones in Reaper are very unique for precision.

Maybe you should check out THIS THREAD to see what's possible with Reaper now. (scroll to the top).

Lunch Money, sorry I didn't get it...I'm not sure I do now? No worries anyhoot.

Lunch Money · Post by **Lunch Money** » Sat Jul 07, 2007 10:17 am

Bevoss, there's nothing to get-- you responded to my post in a way that indicated you didn't actually read it.

Your statements made no sense in the context of my post. But, no worries.

Bevoss · Post by **Bevoss** » Sat Jul 07, 2007 10:21 am

Lunch Money wrote:Bevoss, there's nothing to get-- you responded to my post in a way that indicated you didn't actually read it. Your statements made no sense in the context of my post. But, no worries.

I read it a few times actually...perhaps it's out of context with this thread?

No wuckas anyway...

Lunch Money · Post by **Lunch Money** » Sat Jul 07, 2007 10:35 am

I'll get no sleep unless I explain completely, so here goes:

Moi wrote:Well, not all opinions are valid, Bevoss. You might be right that Reaper has EQUAL potential for unclutter (I can't say for sure, not being a Reaper user), but it's objective fact that being able to reduce your view to get rid of everything except for the tracks (the least possible amount of clutter while still maintaining the purpose of a sequencer) is about as uncluttered as it gets.

To which you responded:

But you can do that...... apart from the tcp, the smallest it will go is a couple of cm on the left...virtually clutter free.

I suggested you re-read, because I never made any statement (at all!) about what Reaper can or can't do. Only about what Tracktion CAN do to become "uncluttered" in the most absolutely minimalistic way possible. My post even says that Reaper might be able to do it "Equally", but that I don't know Reaper.

You do know you can hide the mixer/docker right? That's usually how I have it, it toggles on/off with a keystroke.

Again, you're trying to "prove" something I never made any claims about! Since I don't even know what those are (as indicated by saying I don't know Reaper), my post says that Reaper may in fact be able to be "Equally" minimal.

Of course your valid opinion carries more weight then my user knowledge, so...

I wasn't saying that my opinion about Reaper carries more weight than your knowledge about Reaper, becaue I didn't even state an opinion about Reaper, nor question your knowledge of Reaper. Since I did neither of those things, the above quoted statement makes no sense!

---

In other words, out of the 3 statements you made, they all ignored what I actually said.

Hence, suggesting you read the post again.

I mean, I can't believe I just explained it.

Bevoss · Post by **Bevoss** » Sat Jul 07, 2007 10:47 am

Perhaps you can say what you actually think in one post next time?

Lunch Money · Post by **Lunch Money** » Sat Jul 07, 2007 10:58 am

Oh, but I did!

Bevoss · Post by **Bevoss** » Sat Jul 07, 2007 11:07 am

Are you Dave P. from recording.org? You sound exactly like him...

Lunch Money · Post by **Lunch Money** » Sat Jul 07, 2007 11:12 am

Nah, I"m GregP from recording.org. But we have the same last name. P.

advaya · Post by **advaya** » Sat Jul 07, 2007 11:15 am

That was the strangest exchange of posts I've read in quite some time.

Bevoss · Post by **Bevoss** » Sat Jul 07, 2007 11:18 am

Aha! You're a Tracktion beta tester...I'd probably have become a Tracktion user myself if they had an uncrippled demo to try a project on...but they didn't, so here we are.

A pity 'cause it's a great price for what you get. Of course, wild horses couldn't drag me from Reaper now...

bullshark · Post by **bullshark** » Sat Jul 07, 2007 2:41 pm

aMUSEd wrote:Personally I think it's a bad idea incorporating such sophisticated skinning support - especially that is reliant on bitmaps. I think the first version of eXT has the same problem. The more sophisticated the skinning the more it becomes reliant on people putting a lot of work in to keep up with the latest revision - and in apps like eXT and Reaper the latest revision is often just around the corner. I have a load a skins for eXT that were developed and looked fantastic but no longer support the features of the later versions so are unusable and I can see this happening with Reaper as well - we will become increasingly reliant on a handful of people with the best skills for making skins and graphics elements to keep them up-to-date and I wonder if this is likely to happen. My own preference would be to develop a good interface once and for all and only have the option to change features like colours and layout - I suppose something like Ableton Live, Tracktion and even Cubase have. Radical changes to the gui should follow changes in the programmes functionality such a major revisions and additional features and the gui should be based on sound ergonomics, not mimickry of other daws or hardware. The last thing I want is to get used to a certain interface and then find it's outdated by the new version but no-one is around to update it (and no I'm not going to do it- I can change a few colours but I have neither the patience or motivation to make new icon sets etc)

I do so totally agree with everything written in this post, it's like I've written it myself without actually typing anything at all.

bullshark · Post by **bullshark** » Sat Jul 07, 2007 2:49 pm

Bevoss wrote:Of course, wild horses couldn't drag me from Reaper now...

You'd find this true of any tool that you've spent enough time learning and using that it became an extension of yourself, a tool that disappear in front of you and that you don't have to stop and think about how when using, you just do. It's a comfort zone that's hard to get out of, it would take something seriously wrong with the tool in question to drop it and start afresh with something new.

Reaper is not an ugly duckling anymore !