Magix drop Samplitude dongle...

[koolkeys]

I would assume(and that's all it is, an assumption) that when he says "nothing special", it doesn't mean Samplitude isn't a good app. Just that it doesn't offer anything spectacular for the price compared to others in the price range.

But I'm only guessing. I may have read it wrong.

Brent

[siriusbliss]

I would assume(and that's all it is, an assumption) that when he says "nothing special", it doesn't mean Samplitude isn't a good app. Just that it doesn't offer anything spectacular for the price compared to others in the price range.

But I'm only guessing. I may have read it wrong.

Brent

yeah, it's an endless cycle.
I'm giving up trying to explain distinctions in the app. from whatever else is going on this area of the marketplace.

It's still either price of features - many of which get overlooked, or aren't found to be really worthy of any price. If it sells for $200, people only want to spend $100.
It's OK. Life goes on.

Greg

[Oxytoxine]

thanks kraznet! it was late in the evening..

guys - i downloaded and installed it.
the program tells me to set my vst folder, but then points me to the site where skins can be chosen... am i blind??

i also have sam 9 SE and ms 2008, there is a rewire/vst etc. page in "options", this seems to be completely missing in sam 10 DE?

thanks

Press Y and go to Effects > VST/Direct X/Rewire then click on the yellow folder icon at the top and select "Browse VST Folder"

Regards
Kraznet

[koolkeys]

I think you are taking this too hard though, knowing that you are very close to Samplitude. It may be distinctive to you. It might be the fastest for you. It might be absolutely perfect for you. Great! But that doesn't mean everyone else will agree(and you know that of course).

However, I haven't really seen you trying to SHOW those distinctions that set Samplitude apart. Just comments that it has "everything", failing to mention that it's not the only app with that amount of features. And as much as I like the LE version and would consider using Samplitude should I ever switch hosts, I still have to say that for an app that is $500 or more, there is no excuse for FUNDAMENTAL limitations. Forget the plugins that aren't included in the DLV, but they are crippling a MAJOR part of the application. Why not limit the export formats? Surround formats? Why not limit the included plugins(which they have) without limiting how many instruments can be used? Why not remove several features that may not be as important, but set the full Samplitude apart from a budget app? That's the issue.

At that price, with THOSE limitations, there isn't a whole lot that would make somebody consider it over another option in the same price range, especially considering that Samplitude may have equal power all other things considered? If you're going to cripple a fundamental part or parts of the program, you have to price it at the same price as other apps with those limitations.

Of course some people will never think it's cheap enough. They just don't need what it offers, or their needs are met elsewhere. I wouldn't worry about these people. Those who are expecting this package for $100 probably will never be a buyer of Samplitude anyways, at least the full version.

I know they are trying new things and wanting more exposure. And I hope they get it. But they also need to re-think the process(in my opinion of course) and exactly who they are trying to reach. And if they are trying to focus on the ProTools crowd, they are missing the boat. That's not where they will make their money.

I'm not a marketing genius, but I am a consumer who fits their demographic, at least partially. And I'm a user of a competitor who sees very little value in switching to an equal priced host with less functionality than I currently have. And I really don't believe I'm the only one. And they need to see that.

Brent

[original flipper]

HI

This post got me thinking about the whole idea of turning one premium product into two or more sub products.

To go tell your developers to go away and strip an application of 20% of its content and/or functionality (just an arbritrary figure) seems odd at best - but as with Live and Cubase it always seems like the ESSENTIAL features are compromised: audio tracks & Plug-ins.

Big companies would be better of just producing a completely seperate and new lower priced product than stripping essential features out - just because your new music production or hard-up(?)for cash doesn't mean you can/want to cope with REDUCED functionality does it?

Personally I think that a boxed version with manual and extra content should run alongside a download version - make the download version 33% cheaper and leave it at that.

This cutting down feature set is akin to a DVD manufacturer bringing out a cheap blank at half the normal price ... but with a 2.4 gig capacity! (as opossed to the usual 4.7!).

I have no vested interest in this product one way or the other - as noted by other posters earlier the company has a somewhat confused marketing campaign, has at least 3 versions (4 now?) of the product, Magix also do a variation, upgrades seem expensive and to get the premium version is so expensive as to make you wonder if the company actually want to attract business?

Flipper.

[headquest]

However, I haven't really seen you trying to SHOW those distinctions that set Samplitude apart. Just comments that it has "everything", failing to mention that it's not the only app with that amount of features.

Same here. How si Samplitude better or even different? I hear people claim it "sounds better", but what is the proven technical basis of that claim? etc...

I'm not a marketing genius, but I am a consumer who fits their demographic, at least partially. And I'm a user of a competitor who sees very little value in switching to an equal priced host with less functionality than I currently have. And I really don't believe I'm the only one. And they need to see that.

Brilliantly put. I too am a potential customer, because I am actually looking for a full-on linear style host.

I came within inches of buying Cubase just recently... but was concerned by reports that there are still bugs in C4 and the inability to demo on my system. Then I have been demoing Reaper again and really like it.... BUT it has crashed (requiring full system reboot) 4 times in less than a week, which rules it out. Samplitude is one of the next on the list to consider of course, but I just see no reason to do so because nothing concrete is said about it... and I see there are real deal-breaker limitations in this version at least.

[christianmusicmaker]

Why is the 8 VSTi limit not listed in their "Limitations of the download version:" on their website?

Yes this description is incredibly misleading.

* Limitations of the download version: Independence LE not included
* Impulse responses for Offline Convolution Reverb not included
* Content for Auto Jam Session not included
* Demo content not included
* Printed manual not included
* DVD not included


No mention of any VSTi limit, limit on inserts, busses or tracks Yet IIRC it has limitations in all these areas! A potential buyer browsing their site would sadly be totally misinformed. Can you imagine the frustration of a buyer who did not read this thread first, only to find all these limitations for themselves one by one after buying the product?

Even if they found out after a demo of the product, it would be a waste of their time as a user should not be expected to demo a product to find it's limitations.?!?!?

Magix really need to not only refresh their marketing of Samplitude by providing more info at times but sadly this looks more like keeping info back deliberately.

It is surely standard practice to at least list *any* track limits in a host. It is hard to imagine going to Cakewalks site and seeing no information on track limits for Sonar home studio or going to Ableton's site and seeing no mention of Vsti or VST limitations per project for Live LE

Very misleading indeed. Puzzling. The PDF listed on this page is a generic PDF for the Samplitude product line not as one might think just for SDLV. So while it gives a *very* detailed run down of Samplitude Pro and non Pro features it adds to the confusion as there is still no mention of DLV limitations.

yeah, it's an endless cycle.
I'm giving up trying to explain distinctions in the app. from whatever else is going on this area of the marketplace.

I think you and Kraznet have done very well to asssist users with questions on SDLV (even if we do not agree on everything) but frankly Magix should have done that job in the first place properly with more transparent documentation.

@Magix
The frustration here and this is why the discussion continues, is that many of us really like Samplitude as a product and have for some time. Many like me read the list of limitations and got their hopes up only to find there are more limitations which negate IMO the advantage of dropping the dongle.

Potential buyers...
With so many posts on SDLV here, Magix should be seriously considering dropping the price and being more honest about it's limitations. The result of that would be a far more positive response and more customers for it's mid range product. Should Magix extend DLV's to Samp 11 and drop that price then interest levels could really increase, but Maybe Magix make enough money from their lower end Music Studio line combined with the flagship Sequoia to not really need to drop SDLV's price. Time will tell I guess.

Other companies like Cakewalk and Steinberg appear to make the bulk of the revenue from the mid market that Magix are aiming SDLV at(based on it's price anyway). KVR is a very good example of that market. To crack it Magix need by the look of things a very comprehensive review of what they really want to achieve and how to go about it. The presentation of info and pricing will stuggle to make *any* real impact IMO. If anything it is currently confusing matters.

I'm a user of a competitor who sees very little value in switching to an equal priced host with less functionality than I currently have. And I really don't believe I'm the only one. And they need to see that.

That is basically the point Magix need to understand. Well said Brent. Magix clearly have many more potential buyers...how badly do they want them?

[deleted]

DELETED

[MotorMind]

I would assume(and that's all it is, an assumption) that when he says "nothing special", it doesn't mean Samplitude isn't a good app. Just that it doesn't offer anything spectacular for the price compared to others in the price range.

But I'm only guessing. I may have read it wrong.

Brent

Well, that's basically the definition of "nothing special". Samplitude is fine, runs smoothly and it has a nice workflow. I don't bump into frustrations as quickly as with Sonar, my usual main app. I am not lying when I say that I would buy it, if only if it were considerably cheaper without any limitations.

If anyone can tell me where I can find groove quantizing or even extraction in this version, that would be a big help. As far as I can see it isn't there.

Audio Quantization under Tempo>Audio Quantization Wizard
MIDI Quantization under MIDI>MIDI Quantize Settings - or double click on your MIDI track object to enter the MIDI editor and check at the menus at the top for quantization settings.

But it doesn't have the ability to extract a groove from a clip. It's something I really love about Sonar.

[headquest]

But it doesn't have the ability to extract a groove from a clip.

Well then that is also something of a limitation.

Decent groove quantise would be another one of those things that for me might have sealed the deal. Cubase and Sonar versions at this price point certainly have it!

[Kraznet]

But it doesn't have the ability to extract a groove from a clip.

Well then that is also something of a limitation.

Decent groove quantise would be another one of those things that for me might have sealed the deal. Cubase and Sonar versions at this price point certainly have it!

Do you mean groove quantize for midi? Can you explain a bit more what you mean?

You're probably aware but just to clarify. With Samplitude Pro and with SDLV you can extract the timing from an audio clip and create a midi part based on that . Also you can detect the transients of a drum part and quantize the audio based on the quntize settings .

Regards
Kraznet

[headquest]

Do you mean groove quantize for midi? Can you explain a bit more what you mean?

What I mean is the ability to read a MIDI (audio would be even more impressive) clip and extract the groove from that, save as a template, then apply the same timing to other clips via quantisation.

I'm thinking/assuming a destructive process, as found in other top-drawer hosts, but real time adjustment (as in Reason 4's ReGroove mixer) would be even more impressive.

You're probably aware but just to clarify. With Samplitude Pro and with SDLV you can extract the timing from an audio clip and create a midi part based on that . Also you can detect the transients of a drum part and quantize the audio based on the quntize settings .

That sounds pretty much like what I mean (I assume you can extract the timing from a MIDI clip also?).

I expected that would be in Sam Pro, but also expected it would be in SDLV as I didn't spot that it had been removed in the list of limitations...?

[Kraznet]

headquest wrote :

That sounds pretty much like what I mean (I assume you can extract the timing from a MIDI clip also?).

ATM you can extract the timing only from an audio clip and create a midi file from that. See my video "Audio to Midi Trigger" This is available in SDLV as well .

http://www.samplitude.com/eng/seq/tutorial_videos.ht

extract the groove from that, save as a template, then apply the same timing to other clips via quantisation.

ATM it's not possible to save this midi file as a Quantize Template nor is it possible to use quantize templates in this way as yet but this will be added in V11.

Regards
Kraznet

[headquest]

Oh right, that's interesting. Thanks for the information

[siriusbliss]

I think you are taking this too hard though, knowing that you are very close to Samplitude. It may be distinctive to you. It might be the fastest for you. It might be absolutely perfect for you. Great! But that doesn't mean everyone else will agree(and you know that of course).

However, I haven't really seen you trying to SHOW those distinctions that set Samplitude apart. Just comments that it has "everything", failing to mention that it's not the only app with that amount of features. And as much as I like the LE version and would consider using Samplitude should I ever switch hosts, I still have to say that for an app that is $500 or more, there is no excuse for FUNDAMENTAL limitations. Forget the plugins that aren't included in the DLV, but they are crippling a MAJOR part of the application. Why not limit the export formats? Surround formats? Why not limit the included plugins(which they have) without limiting how many instruments can be used? Why not remove several features that may not be as important, but set the full Samplitude apart from a budget app? That's the issue.

At that price, with THOSE limitations, there isn't a whole lot that would make somebody consider it over another option in the same price range, especially considering that Samplitude may have equal power all other things considered? If you're going to cripple a fundamental part or parts of the program, you have to price it at the same price as other apps with those limitations.

Of course some people will never think it's cheap enough. They just don't need what it offers, or their needs are met elsewhere. I wouldn't worry about these people. Those who are expecting this package for $100 probably will never be a buyer of Samplitude anyways, at least the full version.

I know they are trying new things and wanting more exposure. And I hope they get it. But they also need to re-think the process(in my opinion of course) and exactly who they are trying to reach. And if they are trying to focus on the ProTools crowd, they are missing the boat. That's not where they will make their money.

I'm not a marketing genius, but I am a consumer who fits their demographic, at least partially. And I'm a user of a competitor who sees very little value in switching to an equal priced host with less functionality than I currently have. And I really don't believe I'm the only one. And they need to see that.

Brent

Good points, and as I've stated elsewhere, I think Magix is targeting this sector of the market as a sort-of quasi-niche, since a lot of their revenues come from the Music Studios in the cheaper end, and Samp. Pro/Sequoia at the high-end. They're mainly offering quick access (download) to Samplitude for entry and/or cross-graders, and that's it.

So, perhaps they're reconsidering their market-entry structuring, I don't know.

Greg