KVR Audio

hibidy · Post by **hibidy** » Fri Nov 13, 2009 2:53 am

Sometimes threads like this inspire me to get more in touch with the deeper aspects of cubey. I know allot of it pretty well, but never thought of it as from some of the perspectives being talked about.

LawrenceF · Post by **LawrenceF** » Fri Nov 13, 2009 3:00 am

Lastly, down below is a video/link of the Cubase list editor. Take note of the same tool customization options there ...

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...P.S. ... every single editor in the entire application allows optional "zero-to-all" tool bar customization/arrangement with presets, including calling a static or auto-releasing subset of the key editor toolbar into the arrange track for in-place midi editing, which itself can be customized ...

You never have to see any of it... or you can always see all of it.

===============

...and (in the video take note of) the power of the list filter, which includes Logical Editor presets for attacking notes and ranges directly.

Suffice to say... if you edit midi a lot and start using these kinds of editing / filtering tools, basic midi editors simply won't cut it. You'll see me select (filter from among all of the other notes) all of the C1's with a velocity of 70 + all of the D#2's with a velocity of 100 in like ... one second... ready to edit those only from among hundreds of other notes across multiple tracks.

http://dawsession.com/pics/listeditor.swf

So please... I beg you... stop asking "What else can Cubase/Logic/Sonar do with midi that X can't?" A heck of a lot...

if you need and prefer those things for midi editing speed. It would take multiple paragraphs to list the things you can do just in the list editor here that many daws take forever to do. Not to mention the key, drum, logical, score editors.

Even though I like the S1 basic interface and workflow much better it's often clearly obvious that many people who talk about Cubase haven't experienced it fully... and may not be aware of it's full power.

It's one heck of a daw. It also has it's flaws like any other... so cut it a tiny bit of slack.

hibidy · Post by **hibidy** » Fri Nov 13, 2009 4:38 am

koolkeys · Post by **koolkeys** » Fri Nov 13, 2009 4:53 am

But...but...but.....Cubase is just bloated, right? That's what I heard.

Brent

hibidy · Post by **hibidy** » Fri Nov 13, 2009 5:51 am

koolkeys wrote:But...but...but.....Cubase is just bloated, right? That's what I heard.

Brent

bloated wit what chu need and has da funk! Yeah, un hun.......

I am 97.2 percent sure I'll start my clean install of xp tonight....which means cubey will be nice and fresh too

LawrenceF · Post by **LawrenceF** » Fri Nov 13, 2009 7:07 am

koolkeys wrote:But...but...but.....Cubase is just bloated, right? That's what I heard.

Brent

It's just a lack of true understanding. There may be some bloat but that aint it.

I should probably also mention that all of that kind of editing (targeting and selecting/splitting/changing/copying/pasting and otherwise editing by custom selection ranges) can be done without opening any of the midi editor windows or exposing in-place editing.

This is a really good thing for people that hate Cubase's "non-dockable windows" thingy. Don't open them. You often don't have to for many midi edits. The Logical Editor initially targets whatever is selected on the timeline and refines it's edit target(s) from within that main selection as you tell it to.

It's a thing of beauty once you become accustomed to using it.

Also, every midi/instrument track has one of those dedicated to it's input to affect the midi stream in realtime - that one has four pages, four of them on every input - and it's also available as a midi plugin... the "transformer".

Some people really have no idea what's under the hood there midi wise ...

hibidy · Post by **hibidy** » Fri Nov 13, 2009 7:17 am

LawrenceF wrote:
koolkeys wrote:But...but...but.....Cubase is just bloated, right? That's what I heard.

Brent
It's just a lack of true understanding. There may be some bloat but that aint it.

I should probably also mention that all of that kind of editing (targeting and selecting/splitting/changing/copying/pasting and otherwise editing by custom selection ranges) can be done without opening any of the midi editor windows or exposing in-place editing.

This is a really good thing for people that hate Cubase's "non-dockable windows" thingy. Don't open them. You often don't have to for many midi edits.

What about plug ins? That is one of the only things I really hate in cubase is they are not dockable in any way. They are in your way (always on top) or floating around somewhere at the bottom of the window view/hidden by the project window usually. If they were even collapsible it would be a huge improvement. Am I missing something?

LawrenceF · Post by **LawrenceF** » Fri Nov 13, 2009 7:27 am

hibidy wrote: If they were even collapsible it would be a huge improvement. Am I missing something?

Not missing anything... it is indeed a little wacky...

... comparatively speaking. It used to be you could minimize them but not anymore.

If you're looking for overall perfection you're gonna have a very long search... it doesn't exist. You take the good with the bad and (imo) balance the two where the good far outweighs the bad.

I think in Cubase it does. OTHO mixing in Studio One is so "good" that's really the only time I ever put Cubase down these days...

hibidy · Post by **hibidy** » Fri Nov 13, 2009 7:33 am

LawrenceF wrote:
hibidy wrote: If they were even collapsible it would be a huge improvement. Am I missing something?
Not missing anything... it is indeed a little wacky... ... comparatively speaking. It used to be you could minimize them but not anymore.

If you're looking for overall perfection you're gonna have a long search... it doesn't exist. You take the good with the bad and (imo) balance the two where the good far outweighs the bad.

Did 4 have that? Seems I was used to doing it once. Urrrrgggg!

LawrenceF · Post by **LawrenceF** » Fri Nov 13, 2009 7:36 am

It got removed in the later versions of 4 I think. I did it also in Windows, I'd have plugs minimized all across the bottom of the screen in XP.

Can't do that anymore. 5 steps forward and one step back...

Anyway... I'll bow out of this thread... bedtime... I only wanted to try to express that sometimes things aren't what they seem to be until you dive WAY in. That goes for anything I suppose...

Sonar, Reaper, Cubase, Logic ... whatever.

I just happen to be a longtime Cubase user so I'm very familiar with it's ... "nether regions"... parts that some people never touch.

Peace.

present · Post by **present** » Fri Nov 13, 2009 10:32 am

I guess this is a bit of a classic 'power users' thing. There are a lot of folks here who have gotten deep into the functions of Cubase and reply with all these ways you can get it to look nice / play nice whatever.

My point (and I'm in danger of repeating myself here) is that in the apps that I LIKE, you DON'T HAVE TO.

This is IMHO because of GOOD DESIGN, not because they lack the 'power features' you enjoy so much in Cubase. Both Reaper and Ableton have features Cubase doesn't - they offer a different range of options, (with some overlap) that I generally speaking like more, while providing a far more enjoyable user experience. I also find that when teaching these apps (Logic 9 too) - students get further, faster, and produce better results.

Ok so after 7 years of getting deep into SX it is the best app for you now and you don't like to hear it criticised - and I'm sure a lot of this boils down to personal preference. But for me as a teacher and a user, I'll go for the non-fiddly apps that work as you expect them to, without annoying bottlenecks or incompatible methods of doing the same thing (eg. Instrument Tracks vs. MIDI tracks).

koolkeys · Post by **koolkeys** » Fri Nov 13, 2009 10:52 am

present wrote:I guess this is a bit of a classic 'power users' thing. There are a lot of folks here who have gotten deep into the functions of Cubase and reply with all these ways you can get it to look nice / play nice whatever.

Most of this stuff isn't deep. It's right there, easy to access. And all completely optional. I think it looks nice out of the box. Cleaner than 90% of the hosts out there. And it has more features than most as well. So considering how much is packed in there, it's a pretty solid package.

My point (and I'm in danger of repeating myself here) is that in the apps that I LIKE, you DON'T HAVE TO.

You mentioned Ableton and Reaper. Neither has the full features that Cubase has, and Reaper is notorious for having to customize it to get it "just right". I don't know how anyone could say that Reaper is more streamlined or cleaner. Different, perhaps. But even many of it's users admit that it takes some time to get it set up.

This is IMHO because of GOOD DESIGN, not because they lack the 'power features' you enjoy so much in Cubase. Both Reaper and Ableton have features Cubase doesn't - they offer a different range of options, (with some overlap) that I generally speaking like more, while providing a far more enjoyable user experience. I also find that when teaching these apps (Logic 9 too) - students get further, faster, and produce better results.

Cubase also has MANY features that neither app has. Is it for everyone? No. There isn't a host out there that is. But Cubase can do more than most(if not all) competing products. Sure, it's missing a couple of things. But so is everyone else.

But about good design. Ableton, maybe. Reaper? Not IMO(just opinions here, in case anyone forgets). And I wouldn't discount those "power features". They are very important to a lot of people, and many people don't even know they are there and that they could help their workflow even further.

Ok so after 7 years of getting deep into SX it is the best app for you now and you don't like to hear it criticised - and I'm sure a lot of this boils down to personal preference. But for me as a teacher and a user, I'll go for the non-fiddly apps that work as you expect them to, without annoying bottlenecks or incompatible methods of doing the same thing (eg. Instrument Tracks vs. MIDI tracks).

I haven't used Cubase for 7 years. Not even close. I just don't find Cubase as fiddly as some other hosts. It has nothing to do with not liking to hear criticism. It's just discussion. Cubase is a very deep product. Not perfect, but there isn't a single host out there that is.

Every host has it's little issues, and most have ways around them. Cubase, Ableton, Reaper, whatever. For me, the good in Cubase FAR outweighs the bad. For you, you disagree. And I have no problem with that.

Brent

present · Post by **present** » Fri Nov 13, 2009 10:56 am

Yep, fair play - I'm not disparaging power-features at all, and I would just like to emphasize that Ableton and Reaper have PLENTY of features that Cubase doesn't.

This argument is getting a bit circular now anyway.

koolkeys · Post by **koolkeys** » Fri Nov 13, 2009 11:08 am

present wrote:Yep, fair play - I'm not disparaging power-features at all, and I would just like to emphasize that Ableton and Reaper have PLENTY of features that Cubase doesn't.

Every host has features other hosts don't. I could also say that Cubase has PLENTY of features that Reaper and Ableton don't have. Even more so than the other way around. But it all comes down to what you NEED, nothing else. If you like Reaper or Ableton(I don't dislike them, I just don't like them as much) and it works best for you, that's all that matters. What we say here is nothing more than discussion.

Yes, this argument could get very circular. Just trying to add different perspectives, that's all.

Brent

yellowfever · Post by **yellowfever** » Fri Nov 13, 2009 12:21 pm

LawrenceF wrote:

why have you recorded vocals as stereo? I thought all vocals should be mono????

MIDI tracks to 'instrument tracks' in Cubase 5