i wish fl studio was a true multitrack daw.

[Hink]

Being a "Real Musician" doesn't necessarily translate into an aptitude for computing

+1 but to take it one step further, as a musician who uses a computer and has a reasonable aptitude for it I can honestly say that the downside is knowing some great creative moments might be destroyed because of too much think or an issue requiring a lot of critical thinking. It's worth it, but you have to take the good with the bad and there will be those lost moments

[crimsontider]

Being a "Real Musician" doesn't necessarily translate into an aptitude for computing

+1 but to take it one step further, as a musician who uses a computer and has a reasonable aptitude for it I can honestly say that the downside is knowing some great creative moments might be destroyed because of too much think or an issue requiring a lot of critical thinking. It's worth it, but you have to take the good with the bad and there will be those lost moments

Very true. I guess that's why you will always have a backlash movement. I for hope that physical instruments as we know them always have a place in music. I am one of the first gen x'ers and grew up with a hybrid of digital and analog, acoustic drums and electronic one's. I can't survive without both.

[havran]

All new posts without a single one addressing the specific issues/lack of basic features I posted.

OK, I'll address them:

FL Studio doesn't have the features you want. Try a different host.

[grymmjack]

Most of the time, the speed I enjoy on the front end of FLS, is lost on down the line, and the production process devolves into "why does this knob keep turnin to this value here? oh there's an extra automation clip.. wtf its still doing it? OH SHIT an initialized value!!! wait a second what he'll is this automation clip doing anyways?? Oh sytrus filter cutoff... wait wait. BUT WHICH SYTRUS??? f**k THIS SONG"

true story!

Well spoken sir

[grymmjack]

On the bright side, guys, at least you aren't married to Ableton and constantly fighting with her because she refuses to do automation recording in session view.

-"Baby, I love how you group things, but I don't see what the hangup is about grouping group tracks."
-"It's never enough for you! I'm trying SO HARD to make you happy."
-"I just wanna keep improving the projects we have toget--"
-"I'LL NEVER BE GOOD ENOUGH... MAYBE YOU SHOULD JUST GO CALL YOUR LITTLE WHORE BITWIG. OH WAIT, SHE'S STILL IN BETA. YOU LOVED ME WHEN I WAS IN BETA, TOO."
-"B-baby..."

[grymmjack]

dune_rave THAT makes sense

and i do have an unsellable license for it and i hear it's coming to mac, so it would be neat to use it for beat sequencing inside logic i must admit!

Say what? Fls Mac? From gol's fingers or ?

[megalodonnl]

There has to be a pretty good reason why the issues Mega- brought up are not addressed by Image Line. The odds that he knows what's better for FL Studio than Image Line seems pretty low to me. Considering that FL Studio is a very successful piece of software whose clout as a DAW Host continues to grow every year. Does that sound accurate? Why he would know better than them?

There IS a pretty good reason indeed, and I gave that reason already in previous posts.

The reason was and is their AUDIENCE, which, for the most part, seem to be the types that are the hiphop/trance/dance/dj(etc.)-types, with some exceptions. But the point is that, most of those 'types' don't know squad about other Multitrack DAW's.

Popularity doesn't always resemble quality. At least not in all areas. It's the very same thing as you often see with pop-artists. A lot of them are just some teenagers who got nothing to offer when it comes to actual musicality and basically present a product that is not their own. They didn't write the music, they know squad about anything. But... they might fit the bill for the product of those business minded pricks (who don't give a shit about music) behind such a product and they might pull off the presentation of that product so that, for a while, they are turned into a star. And btw: it is THOSE pricks behind those products that actually ruin the music industry and its sales. But instead of cutting the crap, and hire some decent musicians who got something to offer, they rather blame everything on internet piracy.

Anyway, because of the hyping, a lot of gullible ppl actually believe that this teenage wanker is actually a VERY good musician, because he/she IS in the top 10, 'so he must be a good musician, right?' Right? It is THAT flawed reasoning that gets us, the people, into trouble, time after time. And not just with music (the president said they got weapons of mass destruction...so it must be true, right? These ingredients are FDA/EEG approved, so it must be OK to eat, right? Etc.). I rather vote for doing some actual thinking/reasoning ourselves and some personal experience.

To know what a DAW really stands for and what it's target audience is, you only have to watch/listen to the music of 'most' of its audience. And exceptions are just that; exceptions. Sometimes, those exceptions are actual musical people that just got started in the music recording and simply started with FL, without having a clue what other DAW's have to offer. I'm not putting that down, even though I frown upon it, but it makes it so damn hard to have a decent discussion since these ppl just don't know what they're talking about and, instead of educating themselves a bit, they rather pay the 200 bucks for the PRODUCER VERSION, since, after all, they do need a version that allows the freaking recording of their audio.

This strange behavior might also have to do with the fact that Imageline is so good at PRETENDING that their DAW IS actually a fiiiiine Multitrack DAW, which is something a lot of ppl who darn well know what a decent Multitrack DAW should be able to do from the get go (in all versions, and in the main interface) simply don't agree with. And instead of an intelligent discussion, the only thing Scott could do (the nice guy behind ImageLine's tutorial videos with the charming Aussie-accent), is spamming videos. He knows damn well he can't deny the things I've written. And I'm not even a guru at all. But I did at least try out several DAW's before making statements.

Because there were also lot's of things I DO like about FL, I was actually thinking about purchasing it. But then, during more serious testing, I stumbled upon the aforementioned things which turned out to be a deal breaker, at least for the Producer version.

Now if their price policy was different, like if you could record Audio in the cheaper versions, then I wouldn't be on this parade. I rather spend my time on other things. But 200 bucks just to record audio and the crappy midi features I mentioned? NO.

Here's another shortcoming of FLStudio: Crashing Windows 64bit - problems (plugin/wrapper/bridged mode - stuff) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UBEf3Qw5bH4
And that seems to have to do with the way FL is coded. A lack of true 64bit support. So it's Imigeline's fault, but instead of admitting that, they rather state that 'some plugins might not work correctly' or something similar. This is typical. Therefore, because the main code won't be re-coded, they had to create their bridge 'wrapper', or something, instead adapting the main code. As far as I know, FL will NEVER actually be truly 64bit, apparently because they've NOT taken those things into account when coding FL Studio. The code is done in such a way that it can't be adapted to support 64bit. Unless of course they do at some point find a way to adapt or to re-code everything from scratch, which would take a lot of time for a small dev team I guess. But again, you, the customer, pays 200 dollars for this... BTW: I don't agree with the author of that video when he say's 'their crappy help file', because I think their documentation is one of the better aspects of FL. To be able to just press F1 for context sensitive help is wonderful.

OK, I just don't know how to make it any clearer and this is really my last post now. I'm gonna remove it from my bookmarks because it takes too much time.

By all means, if you purchased FL, have fun with it - it does have great features and has potential, especially for a certain audience who are not hindered by the aforementioned limitations/issues. So they can ignore all that stuff. At least for now...

[crimsontider]

.....To know what a DAW really stands for and what it's target audience is, you only have to watch/listen to the music of 'most' of its audience. And exceptions are just that; exceptions. Sometimes, those exceptions are actual musical people that just got started in the music recording and simply started with FL, without having a clue what other DAW's have to offer. I'm not putting that down, even though I frown upon it, but it makes it so damn hard to have a decent discussion since these ppl just don't know what they're talking about and, instead of educating themselves a bit, they rather pay the 200 bucks for the PRODUCER VERSION, since, after all, they do need a version that allows the freaking recording of their audio........

I am not great with the technical side of the software but offer some thoughts about the users and FL Studio's place in the music scene.

Agree with what I highlighted above from your comments. People that have solely used FL Studio as their host is a much larger % than with any other professional DAW Host from all my reading. So these "musicians" are not aware of what they might be missing.... which makes any discussion with multi DAW Host users difficult. Perfect example is you vs. the crowd on this thread. Not everyone but many, including myself.

FL Studio has gained popularity and the resulting clout in a large degree imo due to the quality and simplicity of obtaining and getting started with it(warez?), but those who advance with the software purchase it at some point. Its price is worth the support alone. This may have actually helped Image Line get to where it is today buy putting it in everyone's hands. The huge amount of online users was a double edged sword in respect to the glut of generic pieced together garbage music we have all over the net. That amount is much greater than with any other Host, and the quasi trance or non rhythmic atmosphere, looped, sampled, pieced together genre's where annoying to many. But there is also a fair representation of good music made with it. So FL Studio has the reputation of having fan-boy script kiddie equivalents.

Amateur music on the net is mainly done by sudo Musician/Producer's. The ratio of competence between the two varies greatly, and many judge the later over the the former, which is opposite of the way I see it. A good musician should instinctively be able to get enough out of a host to offer something that sounds o.k.

It is easy to target FL Studio, similar to AOL users back in the day. And it doesn't do some of the things that other Hosts do but you have to remember that at its root it was not intended to be Pro-Tools but a midi drum machine vsti. So the very definition of the software is a little ambiguous.

FL Studio gets a bad rap sometimes due to it having a larger amount of non musical users than any other host due to its larger online representation. But the top end is similar or exceeds some of the other popular hosts imo, those hosts get only a fraction of the criticism because their presence on the net does not antagonize like FL Studio seems to.