How is Reapers midi functionality compared to Logic?

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jancivil wrote:so in Cubase you can have all the clips [events] you like with their own names in a 'part/track' and edit it in one window. once re-glued the key editor adjusts accordingly.
that isn't subjective. there are things other hosts do better than REAPER, I'm sorry.
I don't know what you mean.

These options don't have any pre-bound key shortcuts to start with, but they can be assigned in a couple of seconds via the Preferences menu.

Select multiple MIDI items in a single track/lane and press CRTL+ALT+E on Windows to open all selected items in one MIDI Editor window. Switch between active items by double-clicking into the inactive area or an inactive note of another item.

You can even select multiple MIDI items on multiple tracks/lanes, then right-click on one of them and choose "Built-in MIDI editor --> open all track MIDI in new editor". That will open a new Editor with all selected MIDI items on all the tracks together. MIDI items on other tracks are "behind" the active MIDI item, switch between them by double-clicking on an inactive note.

So... why is Cubase's MIDI editor better?
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http://www.musicradar.com/gear/all/comp ... 727/review

If youre only doing midi editing, this just got released. Its a dedicated DAW dedicated to Midi editing thats meant to have a superfast workflow concerning compostion. I know its not what your asking but you could do a lot worse than by giving it a quick look. Its an early release as yet but it seems to have a few bugs that no doubt will eventually get ironed out. Check the review and get a demo if its available, I was reading reviews and this caught my eye, saw the forum and remembered about it. Concerning other things, For me cubase was always the easiest For midi editing because i do believe it was them that started the whole midi tools options such as pen draw and erase which eventually got copied into other DAW. At the minute i use sonar X1 and it has the benefit of a built in step sequencer per audio/midi track/channel with seperate Quantize, groove, swing and humanization features which you can work with and then convert to midi,or convert midi files to step sequencer files which makes editing a whole lot easier and innovative. Thats my 10 penneth anyhows :party:

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Funk Dracula wrote:Good grief, that is horrible. I read it was bad, but dude, that is embarrassingly bad.
I'm not sure how you got "embarrassingly bad" from that. In Arrange, do your split, move the clip to where you want it, slip edit the clip to get back the notes that were virtually truncated in the split, then delete any notes at the split point that you don't want in the new clip. I think my example was fairly extreme... a clip of a piano passage involving dense, 7-8 note sustained chords, being split arbitrarily in the middle of a measure. In the case of a bass line or a simple pad or lead, removing any overlap would be that much easier. For things like percussion, except for things like cymbals, what's the chance you have so many overlaps straddling measure boundaries? Not too many, I don't think.

Can you do the same in Logic, where a clip split preserves the underlying MIDI data? It seems to me that based on the option LawrenceF posted Logic either hard-truncates the data at the clip boundary, or gives you the ability to play notes beyond the boundary. In Reaper the data is still there, but the notes are bound by the clip bounds. I suspect in Logic when you choose to split and truncate, the underlying data actually gets truncated. Also, the "play notes even though they don't show in the clip as being played" option would drive me batty... why is that note still playing if the clip has obviously ended, etc.? :) I'd be curious to know if the above process of creating overlapping split clips is significantly easier in Logic... or even possible since it involes slip editing after the split.

Another thing to consider w/ Reaper is it's engine performance. I think if you actually ported some of your Logic projects over to Reaper you might see substantial improvements in multi-core performance, and perhaps overall performance. My understanding is that Logic stovepipes FX/synths based on entire FX bins, which leaves you open to saturating individual cores. To get around that you have to rebalance the cores yourself by physically re-rerouting your audio to different busses: http://support.apple.com/kb/HT3161

Talk about embarassing! :) Is that still a problem in Logic, or has it been addressed? That sort of limitation would drive me nuts, personally.

BTW, I'm a Sonar user myself, so no need for fanboi epithets. :lol:

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sorry about adding S1 into the mix, I'm just really thinking that people who are switching daws atm are going to be kicking themselves in a couple of years when S1 catches up to the (IMHO marginal) amount of features some olders DAWs have over it, and arrives there with a much more streamlined user interface.

don't get pissy about though.. if you've ever had a conversation "irl" you might understand that sometimes people interject ideas beyond the scope of the original subject matter :P

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stillshaded wrote:sorry about adding S1 into the mix, I'm just really thinking that people who are switching daws atm are going to be kicking themselves in a couple of years when S1 catches up to the (IMHO marginal) amount of features some olders DAWs have over it, and arrives there with a much more streamlined user interface.

don't get pissy about though.. if you've ever had a conversation "irl" you might understand that sometimes people interject ideas beyond the scope of the original subject matter :P
Oh I appreciated the addition myself, I'm not feeling pissy :)
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braj wrote:Oh I appreciated the addition myself, I'm not feeling pissy :)
Yeah, no biggie. I just wanted to be fair because when Reaper drops into a discussion uninvited we do sometimes kinda rag about it doing that. :hihi: IIRC, it was a bit of a running joke here for awhile...

Question: "Hey! Anyone use Samp? How good is it?"
Answer: "Reaper"

So... equal treatment and fairness is usually a good thing. No biggie. I shoulda used a grinning smiley there instead of a shrug... to deliver the real intent better.

Bad attempt at humor. Apologies to Stillshaded.

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kewl, glad no one's too worked up. ;) Not trying to be flamey with my retort, I'm the type that like to heckle in a playful way but I gotta remember that doesn't always translate so well to Internet world.

Can't help but be a bit of a zealot for that app.

ok back to the topic at hand!!

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kbaccki wrote:I'm not sure how you got "embarrassingly bad" from that. In Arrange, do your split, move the clip to where you want it, slip edit the clip to get back the notes that were virtually truncated in the split, then delete any notes at the split point that you don't want in the new clip.
"Embarrassingly bad" is overly harsh :( and somewhat personal (imo) and unnecessary bashing. But let's not minimize this. It is what it is and it needs fixing, optioning. It wont get fixed if people pretend that there's nothing wrong with it or that it's not a concern for some others. It is.

Take a - neutral and unbiased - step back and consider when and why people very often split midi clips on the timeline without thinking about it very much or at all beforehand. Most of it has nothing at all to do with song arranging. Most of it is for very simple things like partially quantizing clips, or splitting away a section and changing the clip velocity, transposing, or splitting away a section to use as a groove for another section, or splitting away a clip to just name or color it differently?

None of that should ever affect or change the actual musical performances, ever, (well, at least not unless you specifically tell it to?) sorry. :( Any implication that it's not something typically being done or something that can be easily avoided, splitting up midi on the timeline in a professional midi sequencer, isn't my personal reality, mmv on that.

In all those cases I had to slow way down and take great care not to split over notes, which sometimes wasn't even possible at all, and sometimes meant I had to directly and carefully view midi data across 16-18 midi tracks before splitting anything to make sure no midi notes were under the intended split point ... or just do it like I do everywhere else but subsequently manually "repair" anything afterward on 5-6 tracks where any notes may have gotten split up.

So the issue is 100% legit, and not a bash. It's real, and it's (relatively speaking) pretty bad, for some.

Looking for various ways to excuse it or minimize wont help Reaper become a better midi sequencer.

P.S. All of this assumes it's still the same. I cannot say I've kept up with the latest releases or pre-releases, so (with Reaper) there's always a chance of something changing before you actually know about it. So I'm speaking in the "not distant" past tense.
Last edited by LawrenceF on Mon Jun 18, 2012 4:20 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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kbaccki wrote: Another thing to consider w/ Reaper is it's engine performance. I think if you actually ported some of your Logic projects over to Reaper you might see substantial improvements in multi-core performance, and perhaps overall performance.
Your right about the multi-core distribution in Logic. But honestly those who are adding 15 inserts on one channel well... godspeed to them. I'm sure Reaper performs absolutely stellar with it's engine.



Image

Pretty easy.

Cut, choose how to deal with the overlapping notes, copy drag it where you want it and move on... even make an alias of it.

I'm not sure what you mean by "clip view". If you mean, can you see the notes in the piano roll going outside the regions boundaries in the arrange than yes... clear as day.

Regardless, that whole crazy process you go thru in Reaper is nuts. No need to defend that now is there?

I guess the OP should take a closer look at Cubase for whatever reason he's thinking of switching, cause' IMO he should definitely fear the Reaper after seeing those pics. (hows that for a terrible joke? :hihi:) I can't comment on Cubase; but I can see the benefits of using the VST format and being cross-platform with that host.
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LawrenceF wrote:
"Embarrassingly bad" is overly harsh :( and somewhat personal (imo) and unnecessary bashing. But let's not minimize this. It is what it is and it needs fixing, optioning. It wont get fixed if people pretend that there's nothing wrong with it or that it's not a concern for some others. It is.
Didn't mean it to be overly harsh! But I guess it was... I apologize, it was a bad post on my end being a harsh comment without adding to the discussion. :oops:

Just after years and years of reading "Reaper does it better! Reaper does it better! Reaper does it better!" in forums, seeing those pics kind of shocked me.
"music is the best"

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Funk Dracula wrote:
kbaccki wrote:
Your right about the multi-core distribution in Logic. But honestly those who are adding 15 inserts on one channel well... godspeed to them. I'm sure Reaper performs absolutely stellar with it's engine.



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Funk Dracula wrote: Didn't mean it to be overly harsh! But I guess it was... .
Yeah, a tiny bit maybe, imo, mmv, yada, yada. :hihi:

A couple of really brilliant guys code a pretty great DAW in a few years and just about give it away... nah... nothing embarrassing about any of that. :) Did they do some stuff wrong? Sure, they all do, especially early on. I'd lay a good bet that at version 4 Logic wasn't exactly the bees knees, that they were still maybe solving some random irritating practical issues where they took a wrong turn somewhere ... maybe.

It will be very, very interesting to see what Reaper and S1 and Bitwig, Mixcraft, whatever, some of the newer DAW offerings, actually are 10 years from now... if the Mayans are wrong and we and they are all still around. :hihi:

Of course, the Cubase's and PT's and Samp's of the world won't exactly be going "offline" during that time so some of them may be playing subjective catch up in some ways for quite a few years.

Reaper is pretty great. It's midi sequencer, maybe not so much.

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@embarrassingly bad: Yes it is. The reason? Because the devs are better than that. If they wanted to actually put some time into midi and take care of a couple of these things, I seriously doubt it would be terribly difficult for them. The real problem (again :roll: )

When was the last time they put any time into midi? 6 months ago? 8 months ago? :shrug:

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They may have really painted themselves into some corners with the clip-based midi though. It may be more about ability than will. They may just not have a good solution yet that won't break a bunch of other stuff. Making big changes in software creates a lot of bugs. They may be working on it but being quiet about it. Who knows?
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braj wrote:They may have really painted themselves into some corners with the clip-based midi though. It may be more about ability than will. They may just not have a good solution yet that won't break a bunch of other stuff. Making big changes in software creates a lot of bugs. They may be working on it but being quiet about it. Who knows?
It's just been so long now. I'm not the glass half full kinda guy. People have been griping allot and they don't even respond. Releases are taking far longer than they used to and the prereleases CLEARLY show what they are working on. Nope, not going to surprise us. Hate the messenger, but just being honest. Hoping and wishing things will get better works......for even months at a time. Then you have to be realistic.

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