Linux...anybody using it?

Audio Plugin Hosts and other audio software applications discussion
Post Reply New Topic
RELATED
PRODUCTS

Post

I know my comments may sound a bit harsh but it's all out of the hope that someday native linux audio is just as easy to use as windows and mac are. As a operating system linux is much better than windows and just as good as mac. It is just that the available tools dont have the same features and easiness as the others have.

Maybe it is time to start questioning these carved in stone truths about linux audio and look with open mind the reason why windows and mac just work?

Post

ret wrote: I know this gets responds of how jack is flexible but is there a project you cannot do in those other two systems? Or is there a sound you cannot build on windows or mac? ;)
I think the easiest way to answer this question would be to refer to one of my articles.

http://www.penguinproducer.com/Blog/201 ... k-toolkit/

In this article, I break down the setup of seven plugin hosts, running simultaneously to one another, and each filtered to handle one section of total frequency bandwidth. Each host in this example can be set up to be a compressor, an amplifier (making something of a homebrew EQ), an expander, or even something more exotic using multiple plugins to create different sounds per band, all pulling audio from the same source, and all outputting back to the same output.

You can split the bands however you like. Instead of bands, perhaps you want to use multiple hosts, each with a pitch shifter and auto-tune to make a one-man live gospel choir. Maybe different delay and reverb settings for each to duplicate the effect you get when in a subway, hearing announcements coming out of all the speakers for a mile. And all of this can be done in realtime.

Another benefit is that Jack, the Linux native version, is also a synchronization tool. Ardour, Blender, Hydrogen, Rosegarden, OpenOctave, QTractor, and a large number of other linux-native apps can synchronize their timelines simply by slaving them to Jack. The Mac and Windows versions of Jack can have the audio-routing features, but this synchronization feature is not available natively to applications on those platforms.

And yes, Blender does have Jack support for both audio and synchronization... which means I can edit video in Blender, audio in Ardour, and can guarantee the two remain in sync. For an example of the procedure, check out the following:

http://www.penguinproducer.com/Blog/201 ... animation/

As previously mentioned, this stuff isn't easy. That's part of the reason I document what I learn, because this allow others to get a leg up, to get some of the basic stuff so they can start playing with the more advanced tricks. And more importantly, this stuff is free. Unrestricted. You can use Linux without any limitations, save that of your hardware capabilities. In fact, you're encouraged to use things in ways they were never intended, and nobody will sic their lawyers on you.

Once again, should you use it? If you have a workflow you already are comfortable with, and it does everything you need, then probably not. If you are like me, running on a shoestring at best, and you have not made any investment in other tools, or if you have some kind of special configuration you want to create... well, it certainly can't hurt to try.

The people who would most benefit from this kind of stuff would be people who are already using Linux; they are already invested in the operating system and would not want to have to go to one of the other platforms if they can help it... lord knows, that's how I got started with this whole thing.
Lampros Liontos (aka. Reteo Varala)

The Penguin Producer - Tips, tricks and techniques for producing multimedia using the Linux operating system.

Post

ret wrote: I know my comments may sound a bit harsh but it's all out of the hope that someday native linux audio is just as easy to use as windows and mac are. As a operating system linux is much better than windows and just as good as mac. It is just that the available tools dont have the same features and easiness as the others have.
Please excuse me for making a general remark, but when you say "features and easiness" I suspect we're coming from vastly different worlds. I don't think you'll beat Csound for features, but "easy" and "Csound" can't co-exist in the same sentence. ;)

It also seems to me that what's happened over the past few years is something like this: Gradually more musicians are hearing about Linux, but many - if not most - of those musicians will not find equivalent software for their purposes. The monolithic approach to music software design does not fit well into the UNIX model of modular design, and the software ecosystem is considerably more confusing as a result. Judgements about usability and capability are necessarily skewed because the initial hurdle is at the system level, and the applications stack seems more like bag of parts than a finished construction.

And have no fear, your comments have been civil and not really harsh at all (viz some of the current discussions on the Linux Musician forums). Your criticism is valid, and while Linux is a godsend for my musical purposes I know it ain't so for most other musicians.
Maybe it is time to start questioning these carved in stone truths about linux audio and look with open mind the reason why windows and mac just work?
That is an on-going involvement for some of us. And what "truths about Linux audio" are carved in stone ? The only truth I've witnessed in the Linux audio world is that :
reteo wrote: ... this stuff isn't easy. That's part of the reason I document what I learn, because this allow others to get a leg up, to get some of the basic stuff so they can start playing with the more advanced tricks.
I've been doing the same for a good many years. Unfortunately there is the significant matter of actually reaching people. Despite best efforts - yours, mine, many others - there is still an amazing amount of disinformation out there about Linux audio capabilities. I got 10,000+ reads for some of my articles in the Linux Journal but somehow I doubt all those readers are really into Linux audio. At any rate, many old misconceptions remain in the public perception of Linux.
Once again, should you use it? If you have a workflow you already are comfortable with, and it does everything you need, then probably not.
I would say "Definitely not", especially if production is of first importance.
The people who would most benefit from this kind of stuff would be people who are already using Linux; they are already invested in the operating system and would not want to have to go to one of the other platforms if they can help it... lord knows, that's how I got started with this whole thing.
<Old_Guy_Ramble>
Curious. My own history is quite different. I was happily using MS-DOS MIDI software for about five years before Voyetra decided to keep up with the trend and switched their products to Windows. At that point I almost gave up using the computer, but it so happened that at that time I also discovered Csound. I used it on DOS machines, then in 1995 everything changed. RAM costs went through the ceiling, and Win95 ate memory like a pig. I hobbled along with an underpowered machine until I recalled hearing about this Linux thing. I bought one of Pat Volkerding's books, installed Linux on a spare machine, and taught myself the rudiments of UNIX. I got a lot of help from established people, and eventually I switched from Windows completely.

A point to bear in mind re: my story is that I am first, last, and always a musician. I've been a professional performer and teacher for five decades, well before the personal computer became a reality, so I have tendency to judge people a bit harshly when they complain about not being able to do this or that, whether with Linux or any other system. I also resent the common implication that you have to be a computer scientist to use Linux - I have absolutely no formal training in the use of computers, my formal training is completely in music domains. In that world it is clearly understood that some things are inherently difficult and can not be simplified - there is no "Classical guitar for dummies" method, if you want to play Leyenda or the Britten Nocturnal then unless you are gifted by God you are going to have to make enormous efforts towards the acquisition of the necessary technique. I brought the same attitude into my work with computers - I never assumed it would or should be "easy", I simply assumed I'd have to learn how to use the machine/system on its own terms.

I don't think I'm a very smart guy. I've hung out with really smart people, and I don't qualify. But I am a determined guy - when my t'ai chi teacher said "Ten years is a good beginning" I took him at his word. More than 30 years later I'm teaching and still practicing t'ai chi. My classical guitar teachers advised that it would take five years to acquire the technique needed to play some of the pieces I wanted to play. It's just time, so I spent it on acquiring the technique. Mastering Csound is not an easy proposition, but I continue to plumb its depths and am likely to do so until I die.
</Old_Guy_Ramble>

Okay, enough mumbling. Keep the faith, folks, I need to test session managers today. :)

Best,

dp

Post

I used to use Linux, but in 3 years running it on my work laptop...

IT NEVER CRASHED.

So I quit using it.

Why?

Because Ive seen the Terminator, the Matrix, and iRobot. f**k that shit.

I need computers to keep running a flawed OS. That way, when the computers try to take over it will be lol fail.

Post

I's still there, but you can't see it. It's just waiting for the day.
You can't always get what you waaaant...

Post

StudioDave wrote:Please excuse me for making a general remark, but when you say "features and easiness" I suspect we're coming from vastly different worlds. I don't think you'll beat Csound for features, but "easy" and "Csound" can't co-exist in the same sentence. ;)

It also seems to me that what's happened over the past few years is something like this: Gradually more musicians are hearing about Linux, but many - if not most - of those musicians will not find equivalent software for their purposes. The monolithic approach to music software design does not fit well into the UNIX model of modular design, and the software ecosystem is considerably more confusing as a result. Judgements about usability and capability are necessarily skewed because the initial hurdle is at the system level, and the applications stack seems more like bag of parts than a finished construction.

And have no fear, your comments have been civil and not really harsh at all (viz some of the current discussions on the Linux Musician forums). Your criticism is valid, and while Linux is a godsend for my musical purposes I know it ain't so for most other musicians.
1: I like that analogy! Mind if I steal it?
2: I agree. Ret, you're perfectly fine, no offense is being taken at what is clearly rational discussion. :)
StudioDave wrote:
reteo wrote: Once again, should you use it? If you have a workflow you already are comfortable with, and it does everything you need, then probably not.
I would say "Definitely not", especially if production is of first importance.
I use "probably," because I hate absolutes... there's always the small chance that someone will want to experiment, and Linux lends itself admirably to that pursuit.
StudioDave wrote:
reteo wrote: The people who would most benefit from this kind of stuff would be people who are already using Linux; they are already invested in the operating system and would not want to have to go to one of the other platforms if they can help it... lord knows, that's how I got started with this whole thing.
Curious. My own history is quite different. I was happily using MS-DOS MIDI software for about five years before Voyetra decided to keep up with the trend and switched their products to Windows. At that point I almost gave up using the computer, but it so happened that at that time I also discovered Csound. I used it on DOS machines, then in 1995 everything changed. RAM costs went through the ceiling, and Win95 ate memory like a pig. I hobbled along with an underpowered machine until I recalled hearing about this Linux thing. I bought one of Pat Volkerding's books, installed Linux on a spare machine, and taught myself the rudiments of UNIX. I got a lot of help from established people, and eventually I switched from Windows completely.

</Old_Guy_Ramble>
Csound is the one tool I have not actually played with yet. I really need to get on the ball, don't I? :P
Lampros Liontos (aka. Reteo Varala)

The Penguin Producer - Tips, tricks and techniques for producing multimedia using the Linux operating system.

Post

Those articles shall be a nice read on the next snow day,
alder and oak glowing in the stove, coffee tea and stew
simmering on top, and food for deep thought on the monitor 8)

cd =change directory

mv =move something

cp =copy something

ls =list directory

rm =remove item

rm -R =remove recursively inside folders

wine path-to-name.exe =start a windows app

adding a space and --help after a command, brings up options.

Is linux really so :bang: baffling :bang: ?

Not really. Is a subliminal degree in rocket science,
needed to master such juggernauts of profundity? No.
The windows :-o Registry :-o on the other hand :shock:
If life were a Dilbert cartoon, I would be Ratbert :hihi:

It is easy to find a pleasant and useful linux gui, I stick
to E17, among the host of others. Fast, great themes, and flexible.

Post

reteo wrote:
StudioDave wrote: It also seems to me that what's happened over the past few years is something like this: Gradually more musicians are hearing about Linux, but many - if not most - of those musicians will not find equivalent software for their purposes. The monolithic approach to music software design does not fit well into the UNIX model of modular design, and the software ecosystem is considerably more confusing as a result. Judgements about usability and capability are necessarily skewed because the initial hurdle is at the system level, and the applications stack seems more like bag of parts than a finished construction.
1: I like that analogy! Mind if I steal it?
Go right ahead, I don't mind at all.
reteo wrote: Csound is the one tool I have not actually played with yet. I really need to get on the ball, don't I? :P
No fear, it's been around since the late 70s, it'll wait for you. :)

Btw, keep up the great work on your site. Excellent stuff there.

Best,

dp

Post

With power-teachers like you guys, 2013 is going to be a great class :-o

Image

Bring on the tunes :)

Post

StudioDave wrote:
reteo wrote:
1: I like that analogy! Mind if I steal it?
Go right ahead, I don't mind at all.
Thanks! *yoink!*
StudioDave wrote:
reteo wrote: Csound is the one tool I have not actually played with yet. I really need to get on the ball, don't I? :P
No fear, it's been around since the late 70s, it'll wait for you. :)
Question: is it strictly a music generator, or can I make custom audio filters using this tool for other uses?
StudioDave wrote: Btw, keep up the great work on your site. Excellent stuff there.
Thanks, although it's going to be slow for a while. I'm busy researching some things for future articles, as well as filling out my general audio knowledge for an eBook I'm attempting to write. However, there's still a lot I need to learn yet... :-/
Lampros Liontos (aka. Reteo Varala)

The Penguin Producer - Tips, tricks and techniques for producing multimedia using the Linux operating system.

Post

re: Csound
reteo wrote: Question: is it strictly a music generator, or can I make custom audio filters using this tool for other uses?
Csound can be used for a great variety of purposes, not just music and sound composition. You could certainly design your own audio filters with it - think of it as an enormous DSP construction kit with virtually no limits on design possibilities.

There's also Rory Walsh's cool Cabbage project, it's working towards an easy mechanism for creating standalone processors and VST plugins from existing Csound code:

http://code.google.com/p/cabbage/

Very promising project. I keep up with this one.
... there's still a lot I need to learn yet...
Hey, that's my line ! ;)

"The life so short, the craft so long to learn." (Attributed to Chaucer).

Best,

dp

Post

StudioDave wrote:
... there's still a lot I need to learn yet...
Hey, that's my line ! ;)

"The life so short, the craft so long to learn." (Attributed to Chaucer).
Keep in mind that I have practically no background in media before the Penguin Producer site; I am a technician, whose day-job is to clean virus infections from computers. I need to learn things most artists and producers take for granted.
Lampros Liontos (aka. Reteo Varala)

The Penguin Producer - Tips, tricks and techniques for producing multimedia using the Linux operating system.

Post

You should buy some Microsloth stock, go to the big shareholders meeting,
and vote to Keep Balmer in charge, (for job security)
and maybe a dividend check, if the Win 9 antidote release gets out in time.

So the virus fix is to purge and resize windows, and install a linux
for web browsing? :)

Post

glokraw wrote:You should buy some Microsloth stock, go to the big shareholders meeting,
and vote to Keep Balmer in charge, (for job security)
and maybe a dividend check, if the Win 9 antidote release gets out in time.
Ummm... no thanks. I still need to shave, and since looking into a mirror is a requirement for shaving, I think I'll not do something that will keep me from doing so. 'Sides, I am getting tired of cleaning viruses and want to do something a little more creative... hence the Penguin Producer.
glokraw wrote:So the virus fix is to purge and resize windows, and install a linux
for web browsing? :)
No, the only way to avoid viruses is to avoid doing stupid stuff. Don't open links from strange emails. Avoid "Warez" from sites and P2P filesharing programs (including stuff like Reaper, Pro Tools, and Audition). If you need to update something, the best place to go is the main site for the program (or using the OS's own update facilities). Of course, having a good antivirus helps, but don't depend on that for a guarantee of protection... it can't protect people from their own stupidity. :?
Lampros Liontos (aka. Reteo Varala)

The Penguin Producer - Tips, tricks and techniques for producing multimedia using the Linux operating system.

Post

DAMN MICROSOFT

Got a new upgrade for my old PC and the new "secure boot" for W8 ready motherboards is keeping me from doing a dual boot!!!

I am so close tu tell MS to go ... damn corporations, they think they can control what we do with our stuff!

Anyway here is more info and a form of doing something about it (the "anti-trust email" of EU also got something from me :) )

http://www.fsf.org/campaigns/secure-boo ... /statement

Anyway I already can play some game via Steam, not all but some if Bitwing is a real alternative (price wise to, cause in south Europe things are very though) or if things like the tracktion rumors are true and linux ready I will probably have all I need in linux!!!

Post Reply

Return to “Hosts & Applications (Sequencers, DAWs, Audio Editors, etc.)”