Linux...anybody using it?

[pc999]

Given who is doing the intruments and fx they are probably quite good!

Who is?

This guy

http://www.vemberaudio.se/

[pc999]

So which linux got the honour?

Sorry didn't noticed.

Just "plain old" Ubuntu, maybe if I go seriously into recording or audio in Linux (which I am using Windows for, at this the time) I will try a real time kernel, but for now I am pretty happy with Ubuntu only.

Maybe Bitwig will change that, plus there is a few "interesting rumors" about Tracktion returning and the main guy is the one who does Juce (instant W,Mac,Linux,iOS,Android cross platform).

[glokraw]

If it ain't broke, don't fix it
If linux folks followed such a creed,
their forums would dry up like a Hollywood blondes Mastercard.

[fedexnman]

So which linux got the honour?

Sorry didn't noticed.

Just "plain old" Ubuntu, maybe if I go seriously into recording or audio in Linux (which I am using Windows for, at this the time) I will try a real time kernel, but for now I am pretty happy with Ubuntu only.

Maybe Bitwig will change that, plus there is a few "interesting rumors" about Tracktion returning and the main guy is the one who does Juce (instant W,Mac,Linux,iOS,Android cross platform).

If you download " synaptic package manager ", thru Ubuntu software center , using synaptic package mgr search bar you can find a " low latency kernel " and "threaded irq " , download those 3 things and you'll have better latency its basically like having a realtime kernel system . Im interested in Tracktion and Bitwig as well . I still use Windows7 and StudioOne2 but if those 2 softwares come to Linux I could easily ditch my Windows7 DAW and not feel bad about it .

[ret]

Studio One works rather well with wine.

http://forums.presonus.com/posts/list/7030.page

I tested it on two computers and it works just as well as Reaper.

[Crackbaby]

How does browsing while daw'ing in linux work? Just like with windows? Just trying to get a picture of how linux would be like (im getting a new 128gb ssd and im playing with the thought of installing linux on it

edit: nevermind

found this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LuUAPl0GVpQ

[ret]

With linux you can easily end up in this never ending vortex of trying new linux distros. There is always a new distro promising to be the one to cure all the problems.

[ret]

I would love to use Linux. But when are the big boys (Steinberg, Ableton, Logic(no chance!), Presonus and Cakewalk) going to support it?

I have wayyyy too much freetime.

Lets do a very fictional Q&A for a *add name here* big name company thinking porting their daw to linux. Just some really basics.

Q: If we build and base our daw for lets say ubuntu... Does it work on all linux systems?
A: Sadly no. In fact if you build it around just ubuntu there is a good chance it does not even work on ubuntu deriatives such as lubuntu or kubuntu, let alone other totally different popular distros like opensuse, arch or mageia.

Q: Does linux have similar kind of widely used and accepted plug-in standard as windows and mac have?
A: Sadly no. We have many plug-in standards and currently every native linux daw seems to be supporting different set of plug-in standards and most of them have even created new plug-in systems on their own instead of using the existing ones.

Q: Does linux have similar kind of widely used, simple and working pro audio supported audio system as windows and mac have?
A: Sure. We have alsa, pulseaudio, oss. freebob, gstreamer, jack, jack2, dbus, sdl, wineasio... What was the question again?

This Q&A could go on and on...

[StudioDave]

Lets do a very fictional Q&A for a *add name here* big name company thinking porting their daw to linux. Just some really basics.

Q: If we build and base our daw for lets say ubuntu... Does it work on all linux systems?
A: Sadly no. In fact if you build it around just ubuntu there is a good chance it does not even work on ubuntu deriatives such as lubuntu or kubuntu, let alone other totally different popular distros like opensuse, arch or mageia.

What do you mean "base our DAW" for a particular flavor of Linux ? Ardour, MusE, Rosegarden, Traverso, all work on all three of the systems I run here (Arch, Ubuntu, Debian).

IIUC, you're implying that the manufacturer would create the DAW specifically for a distribution, a la Renoise or Guitar Pro advising the use of Ubuntu. However, the real tie is to the audio system, not the distro. GP wants PulseAudio, and not all my systems have PulseAudio installed. Workarounds are available, but I'd agree that's a pain.

At any rate, your question is not really clear enough. In this world developers don't typically target a single distro for their work.

Btw, Pianoteq, Mixbus, and Renoise have all "just worked" for me on all my systems. Those programs are good indicators to your Big Name Co. as to how they might "do it right" too.

Q: Does linux have similar kind of widely used and accepted plug-in standard as windows and mac have?
A: Sadly no. We have many plug-in standards and currently every native linux daw seems to be supporting different set of plug-in standards and most of them have even created new plug-in systems on their own instead of using the existing ones.

We have LADSPA, LV2, DSSI, and native VST, about seven fewer "standards" than exist in the Win/Mac world.

Frankly, IMO it's coming down to LV2 and native VST. LADSPA's limitations aren't so appealing anymore, and existing VST/VSTi authors are going to want a familiar format if they'll ever port their works to Linux.

Support by the existing DAWs is a problem though. Ardour supports all but DSSI, the others have some similar omission.

Q: Does linux have similar kind of widely used, simple and working pro audio supported audio system as windows and mac have?
A: Sure. We have alsa, pulseaudio, oss. freebob, gstreamer, jack, jack2, dbus, sdl, wineasio... What was the question again?

Wow. Ret, before you go further, do some more homework. I mean no offense, but you've thrown unrelated systems together to make a situation far more complicated than it really is.

I'll break it down again:

First, there's ALSA, the kernel sound support system. [1]

Next, there's JACK. Not one of the other items in your list is even remotely a "pro audio" solution, and some - dbus, SDL, gstreamer - aren't specifically audio solutions at all.

And that's it. OSS/Linux is a drop-in replacement for ALSA that is not a professional solution for Linux audio. PulseAudio is, like JACK, a sound server, but it's designed for normal use, it's not a professional solution.

It's too bad people see the situation this way. There's really just ALSA/JACK if you're serious about recording with Linux. And it's notable that JACK is making headway in both the Mac and Windows worlds.

This Q&A could go on and on...

Again, no offense intended, but from my POV it would be a more helpful exercise if you had more experience with the system. If you ask me, your fictional company is talking to the wrong guy.

Best,

dp

[1] Freebob/FFADO are the Firewire drivers required for audio work. IIRC they are not yet a part of ALSA but work is underway to assimilate their work into ALSA.

[ret]

I think you took my post way too seriously.

What do you mean "base our DAW" for a particular flavor of Linux ?

Look the system requirements for forthcoming Bitwig. It says "Ubuntu 12.04". Now that doesn't really bring much faith, doesn't it?

In this world developers don't typically target a single distro for their work.

How about other way around. Companies who now do windows and mac software don't have to deal with 200-500 different versions of osx or windows. Could that be one of the main real life reasons why linux is not very attractive platform to release something.

We have LADSPA, LV2, DSSI, and native VST, about seven fewer "standards" than exist in the Win/Mac world

With windows and mac there are VST and AU. We can argue but in real life those two cover 99% of mac and windows plug-in needs. It's a good thing that linux finally comes to it senses but it seems to be taking forever and may still be too little too late. This unholy mess of plug-in's is one of the biggest reasons why linux audio is so much behind of it's competitors.

Wow. Ret, before you go further, do some more homework. I mean no offense, but you've thrown unrelated systems together to make a situation far more complicated than it really is.

Again, my post was not meant to be taken too seriously but don't be surprised if these mysterious terms are quite a turn off for someone new to linux audio, let it be a user or developer.

Again, no offense intended, but from my POV it would be a more helpful exercise if you had more experience with the system.

Don't worry, I dont mind. I have used linux since red hat 4 and been (atleast trying to) making music with it from somewhere around the times when ubuntu 6 came so no need to break down alsa or explain how jack works. I just randomly threw together some linux audio related words just for the fun of it.

[StudioDave]

I think you took my post way too seriously.

Probably. I was only on my second cup of coffee.

No problem with the gist of your post though. In many ways Linux audio is a tangled tumbleweed of a place.

What do you mean "base our DAW" for a particular flavor of Linux ?

Look the system requirements for forthcoming Bitwig. It says "Ubuntu 12.04". Now that doesn't really bring much faith, doesn't it?

Come on, you're making a point with vaporware, what's to have faith in ? Like I said, the crews at Pianoteq and Renoise got it right.

In this world developers don't typically target a single distro for their work.

How about other way around. Companies who now do windows and mac software don't have to deal with 200-500 different versions of osx or windows. Could that be one of the main real life reasons why linux is not very attractive platform to release something.

With regards to audio software, I don't think so. The user base is still too small to have much attraction. The proportions are clear as glass, we need only look at the listings here on KVR. It grows, but it seems to me to be far from critical mass.

We have LADSPA, LV2, DSSI, and native VST, about seven fewer "standards" than exist in the Win/Mac world

With windows and mac there are VST and AU. We can argue but in real life those two cover 99% of mac and windows plug-in needs. It's a good thing that linux finally comes to it senses but it seems to be taking forever and may still be too little too late. This unholy mess of plug-in's is one of the biggest reasons why linux audio is so much behind of it's competitors.

No argument here re: VST/AU domination in the Win/Mac worlds.

But wrt Linux plugins: "Too little too late" for what ? Audio world domination ? The sight of Pro Tools going down in an Ardour7-induced open-source bonfire ? Bill Gates falling madly in love with Richard Stallman ? Seriously ?

And "competitors" ? Numbers-wise, the Linux audio community probably can't put together enough for a team, much less play the field. (Of course I would like to be wrong.)

Again, my post was not meant to be taken too seriously but don't be surprised if these mysterious terms are quite a turn off for someone new to linux audio, let it be a user or developer.

Again no argument. There's a mess, it needs to be cleared away, and it's getting cleared away. But I wonder sometimes if it's just bound always to be a mess, that by its nature Linux is something chaotic that militates against conformity, even when that conformity could be of great value at the level of the normal user's experience.

Just a thought.

... I have used linux since red hat 4 and been (atleast trying to) making music with it from somewhere around the times when ubuntu 6 came so no need to break down alsa or explain how jack works. I just randomly threw together some linux audio related words just for the fun of it.

I should have amended my statement, sorry. As you can see, I'll get up on my hind legs now & then. It tires the old dog, but keep the posts coming, ret, the exercise helps keep him lively.

Best,

dp

[pljones]

In the commercial world (outside just audio, I mean), like ret says, most developers will have a set list (usually very short, maybe six distros at specific versions max) that they'll consider offering support on. If you're not on that list and you get a problem... well, if they're in a good mood and you're a big enough customer, they might help. Otherwise you're on your own. But as you say, Dave, that's not really that different from the Linux Audio world at its best for any product. It works if it works.

[ret]

Come on, you're making a point with vaporware, what's to have faith in ? Like I said, the crews at Pianoteq and Renoise got it right.

I'm sure Bitwig gets released someday. Maybe. Do I have massive faith for it changing linux audio as we know it? No.

But wrt Linux plugins: "Too little too late" for what ?

For linux being interesting enough platform for plug-in developers to start releasing their commercial plug-ins in linux. That is crucial if we want more users and especially pro users to linux.

Anyway... I think I've had my 15 seconds of xruns in this topic so I think it's better I crawl back to my cave waiting for the next time this same conversation starts. It' been going on as long as I remember and most likely will go on years to come. Why? Simply because most linux audio developers and big name gurus stay self-absorbed in their very own bubbles and dont take a hint when users say what sucks and what could be done to make it better.

Now majority of people saying they use linux for making music actually use windows software with wine because native linux audio sofware still misses lots of even the most basic features needed for the platform to be usable. It's sad but it's the ugly truth of how things are.

[stanlea]

Now majority of people saying they use linux for making music actually use windows software with wine because native linux audio sofware still misses lots of even the most basic features needed for the platform to be usable. It's sad but it's the ugly truth of how things are.

People on KVR, maybe. Majority, certainly not : see (and hear) GPLed music sites.

[glokraw]

I think you took my post way too seriously.

You might want to bring more 'solution oriented' topics,
which you do quite exel at . I think most people realize that each OS
can be used productively, each has cerain caveats,
and nobody is perfectly happy about
what they use, or about embracing the alternative learning curves.

Of course the KVR means

Konstant Verbose Rehashing,

which can at times be both entertaining, and re-enlightening,
especially since the doctor looked in my ear and exclaimed,
"Blimey it's like swiss cheese in there! "
Cheers