Upcoming Studio One 2.5 release

[soulata]

I just bit the bullet and got pro at the very beginning. Couldn't be happier...


well...if it wrote hits by itself (coming in 3.1 update...)





k

[rockstar_not]

They haven't 'gotten away' with anything, there isn't anything deceptive about the Artist version, whether it is a good buy or not is a different question, but to take offense for lack of VST support when it was never promised 'making you pay for what you already own' seems inaccurate and unfair.

First of all, it's not inaccurate. You pay an extra $100 over the Artist version so that you have access to your own existing plugins. How is that inaccurate?

I realize they never promised this capability. It was clear from the beginning of the S1 version 1 announcements and release that they expected purchasers to pay to use plugins other than what are native to S1.

If people buy the Artist version (which I'm not sure many do - that's the version that comes bundled with their interfaces, correct?) and then they upgrade to the Producer version, or if people outright pay the extra $100 to start with the Producer version, then they have indeed 'gotten away with it'. There's no other "reasonable to pay for" features for the $100. There's no extra instruments, plugins, nada. Import/export of .mp3 - does anyone think this is really worth paying anything for?

So, in my opinion, it's a $100 fee to gain access to plugins, something that frankly is pretty much standard with any other DAW on the market, freeware, shareware, or payware. At least access to one type of plugin format is a very rudimentary basic feature these days. Is there any other DAW software on the market which makes you pay for this? I can't think of any. There are closed environment type softwares like Reason that at least in the past didn't allow any outside plugins inside, but what other DAW makes you pay $100 to turn on something that is a standard feature in any other DAW program? Maybe even Reason allows it these days - haven't looked at it in years.

I'm curious. Maybe this is more common than what I'm aware of.

How else would you characterize it - in marketing speak - to make it sound nicer than what it appears to be?

[braj]

It's a limited version, that's what it is marketed and sold as, again, there is nothing deceptive and if it is not for you don't buy it many 'LE' entry level DAWs make some limitation on the experience, some limit track count, some limit plugin instances, S1 Artist limits plugins to native, closed-system versions. So what? If you don't like it don't buy it, but it isn't sneaky, underhanded, evil or whatever. Frankly I doubt they are looking to make many Artist sales, but keep the $99 price as a way to give perceived value to the bundled version, and to contrast the more professional features available in the other versions. That is not an issue to me as a user, and again, presonus is not alone in doing this sort of thing by any stretch.

[Johnny!]

Exactly, also, to date, they have probably handed out completely free more Artist licenses with their interfaces and mixers, than they will ever sell. It's really entry level, like a software equivalent of classic 8-track tape machine (but in no way limited to 8 tracks ofcourse), or DAT or whatever. There is even more limited version completely free for everyone

[lingyai]

Does Studio 1 support midi loop recording, just as it does audio loop recording?

[rockstar_not]

excuse me, they have 3 different versions of their DAW, each pointed towards different audience - where is the stealing part? noone forces you to buy Artist version, or Studio One at all. besides, it's not like it's hidden information that it doesn't support VSTs. it's your thing to make an educated choice.

edit: just like braj said.

Actually, there's 4 versions. There's also the 'Free' version.

I'm making a version to version comparison and looking at the price differential.

It comes down to a simple question: Is it really worth $100 for two features:

1. Use of plugins that aren't bundled with the Artist version/ReWire support
2. Ability to import/export .mp3

For someone that is starting out with use of DAW software, that has no existing plugin investment, part 1 is moot.

However, for someone that has quite alot of money tied up in pay-for plugins (several hundred USD), then part 1 of the question is worth asking.

I just skimmed about half of the other 14 pages of this thread and nobody else seems to see this as an issue. It appears that there are even more damning holes in the software so it seems. Clip gain automation for one.

Checking other 'Entry Level' DAW softwares (using Artist $99 price point to define 'entry level') for plugin use capability:

MuLab Free: Check, limited to 8 plugins/session, MuLab UL unlimited 75 Euro
Podium: Check
Sonar X2 Essential: no check - can't tell but it appears that basic plugin support is not included, but I don't know how much this costs either - it just appears to be the bottom of the deck for Sonar.
Reaper: Check
Mixcraft: Check
nTrack: Check
bitwig studio (price unknown): Check
Multi-Track Studio: Check
PG Music PowerTracks Pro Audio: Check
FL Studio Express: Check

I'm not all that up to speed on other "entry level" software that might be out there. S1 nearly had my credit card number until I looked at the feature comparison chart back a couple years ago and saw that big hole in the Artist version compared to any of these other choices.

[LawrenceF]

[First of all, it's not inaccurate. You pay an extra $100 over the Artist version so that you have access to your own existing plugins. How is that inaccurate?

Technically it actually is inaccurate since the upgrade gives you access to 3rd party plugs, Rewire capability and mp3 import and export... if you need any of that. So if accuracy matters, it's 3 things. Well, plus more content, loops, samples, etc.

Artist is mostly given away for free with their hardware. Why anyone owning 3rd party plugs would ever outright buy it is well beyond my understanding.

Can you name any other $99 DAW with multitrack transient detection, multitrack grouped warping, folder tracks, multitrack drum editing, multitrack groove quantize, multitrack comping, unlimited I/O and unlimited audio, midi, bus tracks? Probably not. I suppose they could take all that away and let Artist users use their plugs.

I aslo suppose there exists a whole 'nother world outside of the bubble of KVR where some people don't use DAW plugins at all, like people who mix on their digital consoles.

[rockstar_not]

Exactly, also, to date, they have probably handed out completely free more Artist licenses with their interfaces and mixers, than they will ever sell. It's really entry level, like a software equivalent of classic 8-track tape machine (but not limited to 6 tracs ofcourse), or DAT or whatever. There is even more limited version completely free for everyone

The Free version is like the 8 track machine.

Look at the list of the entry level DAW's listed, which all have plugin support.

The Artist version should be free (which it is for PreSonus interface customers), then the $100 to get to this basic feature doesn't seem so steep when going to the Producer version.

But, again - I seem to be one of the few that thinks this is an issue, so I will stand corrected if necessary.

It's not like I don't understand price points for different features. This particular feature fee however, seems punitive. Folks don't pay to gain access to track counts (which is the most common way to 'entrify' a DAW software; limit track counts), or any of the other common entry level limitations. Name a single typical entry level limitation for any of the other softwares I listed (or add your own) where the $100 version prevents you access to something that you already own, but for extra money, you can open the door to that feature.

I can't think of one. Can you? Anyone?

[LawrenceF]

If you answer my question I'll answer yours.

Seriously, don't buy it? This isn't a world where anyone is ever forced to buy S1 Artist or anything else. Stop stressing and just buy something else? Good luck getting all the things I listed earlier + plugin support, for $99..

What's the point? That you can run an international business better than they can? Any proof of that?

Chill.

Lots of things in this world we may not understand. Thankfully, much of it is irrelevant to us anyway so we don't dwell on it... unless we just enjoy unnecessary drama.

[ezelkow1]

You also can grab the artist version for like 15$ during various sales throughout the year. So if you do that, plus wait for a half off sale on upgrades to other versions, you can basically buy the producer version for 65-70$ or so

The artist is just meant as a teaser, it exists for free on alot hardware or as very cheap or freebie giveaways to give incentive to people to upgrade to the pricier versions and as a way to bring people in to the presonus software ecosystem. They most likely created the free version just as an attempt to grab people who might either not get a free/cheap version and give them a taste as well.

[rockstar_not]

Artist is mostly given away for free with their hardware. Why anyone owning 3rd party plugs would ever outright buy it is well beyond my understanding.

There - you said what I'm trying to say - the thing is, a bunch of other $99 DAW software have that functionality.

Can you name any other $99 DAW with multitrack transient detection, multitrack grouped warping, folder tracks, multitrack drum editing, multitrack groove quantize, multitrack comping, unlimited I/O and unlimited audio, midi, bus tracks? Probably not. I suppose they could take all that away and let Artist users use their plugs.

I would guess most of the features you list here are irrelevant for people buying $100 and $200 software (artist and producer price points), with possibly the exception of folder tracks/comping/unlimited tracks.

Someone buying a $200 piece of DAW software likely already has a couple hundred invested in plugins. The $100 extra over the artist lets them do that and lets them do direct .mp3 import/export. Seems heavy-handed and laughable - like you indicated with the smiley face.

Strip out the bulk of your list, add in plug in support and I bet you get a lot more purchases for the Artist series. Add in your list to move up to Producer and the $100 change seems fair.

That's all I'm trying to say - People don't already own multi-track beat detection/groove quantizing/etc. as a prior purchase. They do likely already own plugins.

[LawrenceF]

So now you're the spokesperson for every other DAW buyer on the planet?

You win man... they "should" do wIth it exactly what you say because, well, you know best how to drive their sales even though you have no access to their sales data or their actual business plans.

Sorry for being wrong, you're right. I'm wrong.

Carry on ranting about a $99 bottom of the product pyramid DAW, I won't interrupt you anymore.

Sorry.

I forgot where I was for a minute.

[bobbybland]

10/4 get better jobs, buy what u want and f**k a forum dog!

Lets see the new features,after all thats what we're here for right.

[rockstar_not]

So now you're the spokesperson for every other DAW buyer on the planet?

Please - I didn't claim that. Your list of very unique multi-track features IS unprecedented for $99 software. The question is whether they matter to that buyer. I don't know if they do or not, my guess is that they matter very little but I don't have data, business plans, etc. to back up that guess. It's a guess.

I made the mistake of wading in to this thread about a release update. That attracts existing users, not people that have made the decision not to buy or have a decision as to whether to buy (not upgrade). I was simply hoping that what looks like a hole to my eyes got plugged. I don't recant any of the reasoning for calling it a hole.

My PreSonus Firebox was purchased before S1 was bundled - mine came with Cubase LE. Yeah - you know how that went. I invested in a different DAW and then happily used that (still do) all the while purchasing VST/VSTi over the years.

I was intrigued by S1 when announced but when I saw that it was a $200 entry point to switch teams, unless I wanted to just put the VST/VSTi existing investment on the shelf, the shine quickly dissipated.

I thought that maybe PreSonus would switch up the features for the various versions to make the switch more appealing.

This isn't speaking for all other DAW customers in any way. Let me ask you a question: How much cash had you spent on plugins before you bought S1 Producer or Professional?

[rockstar_not]

You also can grab the artist version for like 15$ during various sales throughout the year. So if you do that, plus wait for a half off sale on upgrades to other versions, you can basically buy the producer version for 65-70$ or so

Now that is good to know - I didn't know they blew it out for that price. That seems fair.

-Scott