Ableton Live 9 announced

[rod_zero]

i'd need the box, if i bought Suite 9 upgrade, because the download speed up here in the mountains is so slow, it needed a month to get everything. i'm sure, they'll charge another 30€ for the box ... and moreover here on Canarias we have to pay import taxes, though we're part of EU. so about 100€ for content, i don't need. anyway thank you very much for the infos!

You could buy the download and ask some relative or friend on the continent to download it and then mail you a USB key.

[mellotronaut]

i'd need the box, if i bought Suite 9 upgrade, because the download speed up here in the mountains is so slow, it needed a month to get everything. i'm sure, they'll charge another 30€ for the box ... and moreover here on Canarias we have to pay import taxes, though we're part of EU. so about 100€ for content, i don't need. anyway thank you very much for the infos!

You could buy the download and ask some relative or friend on the continent to download it and then mail you a USB key.

[mellotronaut]

move to Bitwig

sorry, but compare this cat's colours to the colours of Ableton's new ugly website and you'll know, it's not the Bitwig cat.

[ThomasHelzle]

I really recommend to everybody thinking about updating to first give it a thorough try.

Don't let the short reduced-price-period drive you into buying without testing if it does what you need.

There are always sales later on.

I personally will not update.

Cheers,

Tom

[maschinelf]

@ hibidy, true I don't need to apologise.

But some ppl think (or thought) that I'm speaking for everyone. I do think ableton is screwing me. Obviously, as a consequence of that, I also think they're screwing anyone who owns suite or suite + m4l, cause its not like I'm getting a special higher price than everyone else.

But apparently, my post was interpreted to mean "I think that everyone thinks ableton doesn't care for their old customers". Supposedly, I was talking for everyone. So my apology was only to make clear that I didn't, and nor was I pretending to, talk about everyone. But words are sometimes heavy on kvr, and it seems one really has to watch what they say.

[hibidy]

I consider the source.

I jumped on the live bandwagon again after years of having a bad taste in my mouth and fell in love with 8.4 (which jfc, is STILL in beta ) and had hoped that live 9 would take it to another level. For the two or three things it's a bit better at, I think it has stepped back a couple of notches.

So, I think people are frustrated. There are always fanbois but I had slightly higher hopes and considering the early talkings about how great it was, I expected by this point for it to be more mature.

Oh well

[grymmjack]

The main problem for me is session automation recording is still not working 100%. That was my main reason for buying it again so I will not be happy if it's not fixed.

How is it broken for ya? That worked like the wind for me. I tried with plugs and the abes devices.

[grymmjack]

IMO, Ableton 9, last I tried it, was NOT ready for release. Not by a mile. I couldn't even install Livepacks FFS, and these were ALP's that I had from their offerings online. Also, on several occasions plugins just shit the bed.

It's not ready yet, but I'll buy it anyway because I know they will fix it eventually to be ready.

Gross.


But are you really sure they will fix the issues? We are talking about Ableton here...

I trust them, yeah. They have too much to lose if they don't with bitwig looming.

I'm not 100% sure they will fix the issues, but I have faith in them as a company. What's concerning me is how rushed this all feels, the number of job postings on their site, and the focus on hardware with Push.

When the CEO makes a public statement to backup the companies plan, and follows through the best they can (live v8 is pretty stable for me now, crashes are still happening but they are farther apart it seems ) that means something to me. Enough to give them another chance.

I have an APC40 and I'm not drinking the Push koolaid (yet - let's see what happens on release and let things stabilize first then maybe), and bundling M4L means that so much more will be around in M4L format which is great.

TBH, Renoise is slowly replacing Live for me, but there are bits that I just cannot live without. The workflow I can adjust to but the racks and devices and spontaneity with Live is too great.

I'm addicted to the drug they are pushing unfortunately. The audio to MIDI stuff is neato and I've been on the Abelton teat for too long I have too much to lose if I just dump it at this point; not factoring in the costs in money the time and habits and mastery of the workflow is kind of invaluable to me.

I've got an open mind and an open heart about v9.

[grymmjack]

IMO Live is so good in some respects that the failures and oversights (pdc, no automation curves, etc.) stand out - if it were sh*t in general (and cheap), you could forgive it.

Still, I've yet to use a DAW that didn't surprise me by having some glaring inadequacy (Dear Logic: Panning. You keep using that word. I don't think it means what you think it means...)

+1 (minus the logic sentiment).

[grymmjack]

I'm having all kinds of little problems and I get little to no answers over on that forum. I'd expect the focus to be more important things than "automatic updates"

What kind of problems hibidy? I might be able to help ya. I'm kind of good at Live and know a lot of little hidden things about it through experience. If I can I will help.

[grymmjack]

IMO, Ableton 9, last I tried it, was NOT ready for release. Not by a mile. I couldn't even install Livepacks FFS, and these were ALP's that I had from their offerings online. Also, on several occasions plugins just shit the bed.

It's not ready yet, but I'll buy it anyway because I know they will fix it eventually to be ready.

It is likely in Ableton's best interest to release Live9 before Bitwig... even if a few issues linger...

Which I get, timing and all, but it's concerning to rush if it's not finished. History repeating isn't in their favor (remember the public statement from Gerhard for state of v8?)

What they have created with Live isn't just a program, it's an entire industry now. So much depends on their success of course, but I just am rooting for them with some concern. We'll find out soon enough I suppose.

GetSatisfaction is a cool platform, but for a public beta, not the greatest. Without a formal bug tracker, the amount of duplicate reporting must be staggering. I posted to them about this and they said that they sort through it all. I just wonder how much of our bitching actually translates into real issues in their bug tracker. The walled garden of getsatisfaction is great if it works. I quite liked the way it was designed and built, just not sure how efficient and thorough it is to rake through the chaos.

[grymmjack]

the 'discounted' upgrade price (169 €) and the 'discount' deadline for Live 8 Suite + MfL owners to Suite 9 are rather steep imo. what do they offer to justify this? some 'artist' and some orchestra sample sets, i don't need ... moreover i have a Glue license already.
Session view automation and enhanced midi functionality are very important though. what will happen with my MfL license and the Suite instruments, when i 'only' upgrade to Live 9? will i get updates?

Same boat mello, but they have to eat too man. I can look past my own situation as a suite 8 + M4L owner for a few reasons:

1. Bundling M4L means increase in output of M4L stuff, and also means we finally will be using MAX6 for M4L! (awesome!)

2. Andy@cytomic deserves the recognition and though I own his products already having them as native live devices is pretty sweet. I will still use the plugs in Renoise for example. No value lost there. It's really smart move on Ableton's end.

3. Session automation and how they integrated that in also to "capture time" from arrange back into session is fantastic. I would pay for this feature alone $100.

4. Audio -> MIDI is damned good. It's not perfect, but it's pretty freaking good. In my testing it works well and I'll be using the heck out of it. It's not melodyne native integration like S1 (which is unreal), but it's good enough and is aligned with the spirit of Live.

5. The new effects enhancements are super welcome. The EQ8 especially.

6. The new appearance system is nice. I only wish they would release a editor so we can make our own without hex editing and stuff.

7. I have invested way more than I care to admit in the Live platform, the amount of time and money is not 100% recoverable if I stop using it.

[whyterabbyt]

But some ppl think (or thought) that I'm speaking for everyone. I do think ableton is screwing me. Obviously, as a consequence of that, I also think they're screwing anyone who owns suite or suite + m4l, cause its not like I'm getting a special higher price than everyone else.

How do you think you're being screwed? The upgrade price from Live8 Studio plus M4L to Live 9 standard, with all your existing extras, is the cheapest upgrade price Ableton are offering anyone. If you want the new Live9 content, its a pretty nominal cost on top of that, and still cheaper than anyone else's upgrade options.

The prices they were listing in October, when I was more vocal about how it looked than you were, were significantly higher than that, and definitely unfair to Suite owners, but they've rectified that. Im not entirely sure what your issue with the current pricing is, what price do you think would not be screwing you? Its certainly a cheaper upgrade path than a couple of the other hosts I use.

And if its not worth it to you, dont get it. Noone has to upgrade just to be disappointed. Well, except for KVR's professional whiners, of course.

[mellotronaut]

the 'discounted' upgrade price (169 €) and the 'discount' deadline for Live 8 Suite + MfL owners to Suite 9 are rather steep imo. what do they offer to justify this? some 'artist' and some orchestra sample sets, i don't need ... moreover i have a Glue license already.
Session view automation and enhanced midi functionality are very important though. what will happen with my MfL license and the Suite instruments, when i 'only' upgrade to Live 9? will i get updates?

Same boat mello, but they have to eat too man. I can look past my own situation as a suite 8 + M4L owner for a few reasons:

1. Bundling M4L means increase in output of M4L stuff, and also means we finally will be using MAX6 for M4L! (awesome!)

2. Andy@cytomic deserves the recognition and though I own his products already having them as native live devices is pretty sweet. I will still use the plugs in Renoise for example. No value lost there. It's really smart move on Ableton's end.

3. Session automation and how they integrated that in also to "capture time" from arrange back into session is fantastic. I would pay for this feature alone $100.

4. Audio -> MIDI is damned good. It's not perfect, but it's pretty freaking good. In my testing it works well and I'll be using the heck out of it. It's not melodyne native integration like S1 (which is unreal), but it's good enough and is aligned with the spirit of Live.

5. The new effects enhancements are super welcome. The EQ8 especially.

6. The new appearance system is nice. I only wish they would release a editor so we can make our own without hex editing and stuff.

7. I have invested way more than I care to admit in the Live platform, the amount of time and money is not 100% recoverable if I stop using it.

Live is my most important music software (and i it ... and sometimes it makes me ); so i'll update for sure. Live 9 or Live 9 Suite? This is the question.

[maschinelf]

.And if its not worth it to you, dont get it. Noone has to upgrade just to be disappointed. Well, except for KVR's professional whiners, of course.

Man, did you wake up on the wrong side of the bed today? Seriously, what's your problem? You had an issue with what I said before, so I apologised even when I did not need to. in fact, I clearly stated in my apology that I only speak for myself, so yea I think I already made it clear that it is up to me whether I get the upgrade or not. I never said its anyone else's problem, so stop trying to pretend its your problem.

I didn't start calling names. Actually, I don't care enough to. So, what's the deal with you branding me a whiner. Now I suppose you ARE the KVR spokesperson that decides who's a whiner and who's not

Anyway, to answer you question, for 159 usd I get Live 9 and get to keep my instruments. So what do I get? Session Automation, Audio to MIDI, Glue, and a few enhancements. I already have Glue, Session Automation may prove useful, Audio to MIDI seems like a cool feature especially for drums, but for the rest I have melodyne integrated into S1, and though I recognise that the purpose and consequently functionality of each of the two is different, I think I could easily achieve the same result with melodyne. The cosmetic, browser and library enhancements mean little to me. AFAIAC, Live 8 is already fine in this department.

Then there is the question of the upgrade path that I will need to take later, if and when Suite 10 is released with more instruments. Going from Suite 8 to Live 9 does mean I am being downgraded in a way, and also means I'll probably have to pay more later to get back to the suite tier.

So let me spell out to you what I think are fair prices, since you seem to care so much about my opinion. The full upgrade price of 299 usd for Suite 9 is obviously too high in my opinion. Actually, the full retail price should be what the current discount is i.e. 249 usd. The discount should have been 199 usd, or maybe even 179 usd wouldn't be so bad. As for what I actually need from the suite, well I have reaktor so I don't really NEED m4l, though of course it's nice that it's there. As for the sound libraries, I don't even have the libraries from v8 installed, and that also includes retro synths and EIC2. Again, not much use to me.

All of this wouldn't matter if I was confident in the direction Ableton seem to be taking. But as it turns out, that is my biggest issue. They're pushing push now, and concurrently don't seem interested in addressing core issues that have existed with the software for years. I don't think they had any lack of development time, it's just that they chose to spend that time differently than I would have liked them to. Instead of fixing core issues, they decided to spend time on developing a new hardware controller.

Then there is also the mathematical side to my argument, how I can easily demonstrate with some basic math how I would have been better off if I'd just sold the Suite and re-bought it with a free upgrade to 9. I could go on, but I don't feel inclined to do so any more than I already have.