Ableton Live 9 announced

[headquest]

Drum Racks should Sample like Redrum

Well, you can easily record something onto an audio track and then just select the clip or portion of the clip and drop it onto a pad in Drum Rack. For me this is actually a bit faster than the way it works in Reason. Personal preference of course.

Ken

Agreed - I find the Ableton way of sampling more software-intuitive and faster than Reason. Sampling in ReDrum (and Reason's other devices) is essentially a good thing because getting your samples into Reason's devices is such a PITA otherwise, involving navigating through your computer folders rather than simply dragging and dropping a sample in. Ableton wins hands down for me (personally)...

Well, at least:

a) it remembers the last session and attempts to reload and....

b) it actually MAKES a crash report that can be sent to abes.

Not a glass half-full guy, but it's better than some OTHER hosts that do neither!

Absolutely - for me this is another big WIN in Ableton.

[masstronaut]

Pretty interesting, actually--even though only two people replied, you guys both chose Live as your favorite in my test. I am not even going to pretend to reach a scientific conclusion from that, but still very interesting.

I very subjectively felt I liked the Ableton version best as well. Rather subtle differences as far this test goes, and I'm sure some of that could be down to slightly different automation.

Interesting result though. Good work - I think a few more people should have a listen and see what they hear.

[sockofgold]

Nice. Sounds like Live best suits you and your workflow. I really appreciate you taking the time to post the files

Yeah, the workflow of Live is what I do really like. It really does a good job of keeping the creativity flowing.

HOWEVER, in the spirit of the ongoing PDC discussion, I have to admit that, in spite of what I said earlier in the thread, I am definitely understanding the issue now, working on another project with tons of tempo-synced effects. During playback, my CPU is at around 30-35%, and the timing is all over the place. It just sounds awful--it's like each separate synth is in its own time zone. It does sound a little better when bounced, but it's still not as tight as I would like it.

I am actually at the point where I would transfer it to another DAW to continue working on it if I didn't think it would take a full day to do it due to the complexity of the project.

But yeah, I see the issue now and completely agree with you guys. This is definitely a huge problem that really needs to be fixed. I don't think I will be able to trust Live for any large projects until they do (if they ever do). What a bummer...

[masstronaut]

Do you think it would be less of a problem if you were mainly using native Live plugs?

One thing that I've seen come up a few times but it's still little known is that sends from tracks that are grouped can end up with large delays and it seems to be related to the input monitoring. If you set the audio from of those tracks to 'no input' the delay disappears. I've mentioned this to Ableton and I wonder if it isn't a bit of a clue to what's going on with the rest of the slack PDC. Anyway, worth checking if that applies to any part of your project.

[Wellenmacher]

Nice. Sounds like Live best suits you and your workflow. I really appreciate you taking the time to post the files

Yeah, the workflow of Live is what I do really like. It really does a good job of keeping the creativity flowing.

HOWEVER, in the spirit of the ongoing PDC discussion, I have to admit that, in spite of what I said earlier in the thread, I am definitely understanding the issue now, working on another project with tons of tempo-synced effects. During playback, my CPU is at around 30-35%, and the timing is all over the place. It just sounds awful--it's like each separate synth is in its own time zone. It does sound a little better when bounced, but it's still not as tight as I would like it.

I am actually at the point where I would transfer it to another DAW to continue working on it if I didn't think it would take a full day to do it due to the complexity of the project.

But yeah, I see the issue now and completely agree with you guys. This is definitely a huge problem that really needs to be fixed. I don't think I will be able to trust Live for any large projects until they do (if they ever do). What a bummer...

That is what I had to do and had to switch to another DAW
to make my work done !
All the time and money invested into Live is just wasted !!!

Lucky that StudioOne has the same workflow and much better performance and sound, so in the end I am happier with StudioOne.
But that isn't a reason to forgive and forget what
I was gone through with Live 8.
All this became hilarious when I saw Live9 released for more money, PDC not fixed and me knowing now, that I have a Live8 version that will never be fixed.

What is about compensation for a software with such defects ?

I'm gone from Live, but that is no reason to shut up and let them get away.
I complain and warn all other who wanna know, to be aware of this when they think to buy Live 9 !
I don't think they admit their wrong doing and compensate buyers of Live8!
But that would be the only right way, if they don't plan to fix Live 8PDC !

[sockofgold]

That is what I had to do and had to switch to another DAW
to make my work done !
All the time and money invested into Live is just wasted !!!

Lucky that StudioOne has the same workflow and much better performance and sound, so in the end I am happier with StudioOne.
But that isn't a reason to forgive and forget what
I was gone through with Live 8.
All this became hilarious when I saw Live9 released for more money, PDC not fixed and me knowing now, that I have a Live8 version that will never be fixed.

What is about compensation for a software with such defects ?

I'm gone from Live, but that is no reason to shut up and let them get away.
I complain and warn all other who wanna know, to be aware of this when they think to buy Live 9 !
I don't think they admit their wrong doing and compensate buyers of Live8!
But that would be the only right way, if they don't plan to fix Live 8PDC !

Hi W,

Honestly, between this and the other Live thread, I think you are just completely missing what I am saying. I agree that people should be warned about the problem, and educated on how to recreate it so that they can test it on their own. I am not asking you to drop it altogether--everyone has a right to know the limitations of the software, especially something as pricey as Live.

All I am saying (mostly in the other thread that became a big unreasonable cry-fest) is that people need to chill. Yeah, it really sucks that Ableton clearly has no intentions to fix the issue, but threatening lawsuits and getting all worked up over it is just silly.

If you're happy with Studio One, just cut your losses, sell you Live license, and move on. Obviously, nobody is ever happy about losing money on something that doesn't work properly for them, but it's life. If that's the worst thing that happens to you this year, count your blessings; you have had a pretty good year. It's really easy to get caught up in outrage and anger on forums like these, but it's just not worth it.

Bottom line: you're not going to get compensated for this. Accept it and move on.

[chroma]

Do you think it would be less of a problem if you were mainly using native Live plugs?

One thing that I've seen come up a few times but it's still little known is that sends from tracks that are grouped can end up with large delays and it seems to be related to the input monitoring. If you set the audio from of those tracks to 'no input' the delay disappears. I've mentioned this to Ableton and I wonder if it isn't a bit of a clue to what's going on with the rest of the slack PDC. Anyway, worth checking if that applies to any part of your project.

i think if you use native plugs in non-HQ mode, they're all zero-latency and so no issue.

as far as the group delays... those large delays could be because one device has a large delay, and the others are being compensated to line up - that's what PDC does. pdc ALWAYS creates longer latencies, not shorter ones - it just makes everybody's delay as long as the longest delay.

[Guenon]

But that isn't a reason to forgive and forget what
I was gone through with Live 8.

During these three years, Live 8 has served me better than any piece of DAW software before. I don't exactly like the automation + PDC situation, to put it mildly , but I'm also grateful for there being a music application that works SO intuitively in regards to what I want to do.

Pretty subjective, yeah. I guess I'm in the opposite end of the spectrum than you, when it comes to my attitude towards Ableton. Even if I'd very much like to see a fix for the automation thing, that is. For me, for most of the time, Live 8 has meant a stable, pleasing and inspiring DAW.

[WGMac]

I'm happy to say that I'm not impressed, or I might feel compelled to spend more money ($234 US ? to upgrade from Live 8 Suite + Max for Live). After the long wait for a paid upgrade, I expected there would be something worth paying for. Of course, the new version undoubtedly works seamlessly with their new Push controller, but I'm not interest in buying more hardware either -- what I want is more functional software (although the one thing in version 9 that I missed in version 8 is the ability to record automation to clips from superannuated controllers like the ones I have).

But when Push comes to shove, I can live without that too. It appears that while the numbers keep getting higher, there's really nothing new under heaven. Just the same old stuff, with a high price to make sure you haven't got left behind.

[hibidy]

But when Push comes to shove, I can live without that too

Punny!

[Shabdahbriah]

But when Push comes to shove, I can live without that too

Punny!

Doubtless "Bitwig" will name their hardware controller: Shove.


(I would)

[grymmjack]

One thing though, doesn't live have a "set" value for panning laws? I know we've had these threads before were pan laws have indeed changed perception in how a host "sounds"

Not sure, if you right click the cross fader is this what you mean?

No... "panning laws" is a totally 'nother (circular) "can-of-worms".

meh, all of these little setbacks really don't affect me. I guess i'm in the minority, but Live is good enough to work around any of these things. They have me for life unfortunately, as I am completely addicted to the Ableton design, workflow, and no other host can take me where Live does.

Panning law is not something new to me coming from Cakewalk camp I just never used that feature. I set it once and forgot about it, and almost 100% of the time used the default.

The PDC thing doesn't effect me either because I guess I am too amateur to notice it or I don't pile on the effects like some do. Either way if it does happen and I do happen to notice I am guessing the bounce to clip/resample will solve the problem...

[grymmjack]

I really hope it's fixed and what i am reading is wrong. After defending abes for so long vs bitwig i'd feel like an idiot if this is released without that essential fundamental mixing feature fixed.

But for now we don't know whether Bitwig Studio has working PDC either

Must admit though, personally I've never picked up this problem with Live at all, compared for example with Reason where it is pretty obvious to anyone even at the demo stage

Does FLStudio have this issue? That PDC was implemented relatively late in the game yes? Did gol solve it? If he can do it, so can the Abes.

[grymmjack]

Well I saw a viddy using rex files and they load differently.

However, slice to midi pretty much rocks hard so that's good enough. Bare with me, I'll start feeling I "know" something and realize I don't know shit

Show us the video hibidy. Is this a Live 9 video? I'm very interested if so.

[whyterabbyt]

I really hope it's fixed and what i am reading is wrong. After defending abes for so long vs bitwig i'd feel like an idiot if this is released without that essential fundamental mixing feature fixed.

But for now we don't know whether Bitwig Studio has working PDC either

Must admit though, personally I've never picked up this problem with Live at all, compared for example with Reason where it is pretty obvious to anyone even at the demo stage

Does FLStudio have this issue? That PDC was implemented relatively late in the game yes? Did gol solve it? If he can do it, so can the Abes.

All this PDC fuss is actually quite funny to me in some ways; Sonar had full PDC on every track and bus from V1, long before any other host did, and all folk did was complain about getting 'gapping audio' when inserting latency-laden plugins into a running track (ie it was doing dynamic PDC recalculation on-the-fly). Took years for some of the other hosts to catch up; eg Logic had it on tracks, but not buses for years afterwards, etc etc yada yada.
Meanwhile some of the smaller/modular hosts still dont seem to do full automatic PDC. Some plugins dont even report latency at all, let alone accurately.
Makes you wonder how anyone got anything done ever. I guess finding minutiae that doesnt work 100% and complaining about is more important to some folk than actually creating anything; they seem to do nothing else....