Steinberg's Countdown, Nuendo 6 AND Cubase 7!!!
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- KVRAF
- 5813 posts since 17 Aug, 2004 from Berlin, Germany
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- KVRer
- 2 posts since 4 Apr, 2004
Thanks though I meant the activation date of my cubase 6.5, I bought it 17okt. and activated later, I want to see when I activated 6.54damind wrote:Activation Date? C7 will be released on December 5.
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- KVRAF
- 14658 posts since 19 Oct, 2003 from Berlin, Germany
Sorry, but Steinberg is saying that since SX1 now. To me it's like another "we can't do it" or "we're not in the mood, so we push it away" thing.4damind wrote:It was also mentioned in a German podcast with the Steinberg marketing manager Helge Vogt, that they know about the problems with the window management but it's not a easy task and so it's planned for later (major?) updates.
Wavelab got it covered, but not really well IMO. Then again, Wavelab was independent from Cubase/Nuendo in terms of code - and it was written from scratch with v7 anyway.
I don't see a reason why ARA by Celemony is actually needed? Isn't Celemony best as "external editor" (rewired) anyway?4damind wrote: They have also no interest this time to implement ARA, because it needs about 1 year that Celemony had a stable version available and the SDK was released too late (summer 2012). On the other side they have a own tool Vari Audio 2.0 so there are this time no plans to support ARA. But nothing is set in stone.
I HOPE NOT!4damind wrote: He mentioned also that Steinberg has some more ideas in the drawer. Some of this is to improve instrument tracks with multiple outs and stuff, so they can combine the vst-instrument rack/Midi and instrument tracks into one thing. This is planned and will come in the future.
Seriously, if they drop the MIDI channel, then this not only cuts off all hardware users, but also the flexibility in terms of routing "inside" Cubase regarding MIDI channels. It's been there since Cubase 1 days, and if they drop that - they pretty much shoot off every oldschool user.
I'd personally drop the instrument channel. It was so useless it's not even funny. Granted, you have the MIDI and Audio channel in one "channel" in the arranger. But as traditional engineer, I'd have gone for the VSTi channel in terms of editing anyway.
Sometimes I really ask myself what Steinberg is thinking.
If I find some time, I'll take a closer look. Still, Cubase 7 is NOT what I expected. And like SX1 was to VST5, it's a step backwards in certain directions. Maybe I simply suck it up, stay with C6.x and wait for C8.4damind wrote: (in German)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-cruxGtp8_0&hd=1
But... as soon as C7 is sold, you can't buy C6.5 anymore. Something I hate with every developer that sells in-between updates.
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- KVRAF
- 5813 posts since 17 Aug, 2004 from Berlin, Germany
Instrument tracks will be a complete replacement, also with the feature to route different midi tracks to a instrument track (it's also stated in the Video by Helge Vogt).
I'm not sure but maybe that the idea to start with the mixer is more because of the wishes of the beta testers/professional user they ask.
The same with ARA... not only because the SDK was not ready early enough, I think many of their pro-users having not a wish for ARA.
I personally have more problems with the window management so I wished Steinberg would provide something new with C7... But it's also fine to have more a virtual console now instead of a mixer and this other stuff like this ASIO guard is also a long time wished feature (Logic and other DAWs having some similar extra buffering too).
We will also see some smaller updates in the not so far future. Helge stated that they have some small improvements always planned for the mixer and they have other "secret" ideas... So, I'm happy with the things the have changed in C7 and the things we will see in the (not so far) future
I'm not sure but maybe that the idea to start with the mixer is more because of the wishes of the beta testers/professional user they ask.
The same with ARA... not only because the SDK was not ready early enough, I think many of their pro-users having not a wish for ARA.
I personally have more problems with the window management so I wished Steinberg would provide something new with C7... But it's also fine to have more a virtual console now instead of a mixer and this other stuff like this ASIO guard is also a long time wished feature (Logic and other DAWs having some similar extra buffering too).
We will also see some smaller updates in the not so far future. Helge stated that they have some small improvements always planned for the mixer and they have other "secret" ideas... So, I'm happy with the things the have changed in C7 and the things we will see in the (not so far) future
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- KVRAF
- 14658 posts since 19 Oct, 2003 from Berlin, Germany
But I mean... the new mixing console... it lacks the essential things (phase and input gain "in" the actual console view - not seperate in the channel strip), there is no routing known.
I'm also a sucker for slight updates, especially if they are free. But currently, Cubase 7 looks like a guinea pig version for Cubase 8 and Nuendo 7 (if they don't drop 7 and go for 8 directly - to stay unified).
I am hesistant. Like, seriously. I consider myself a pro user of Cubase as well, but simply dropping the essential stuff from a console, just to have a more streamlined and "new" mixing environment?
It's as if I throw out my consoles, dig aroung in my "trashed equipment" box and find that one DIY 4 channel mixier I once had, which lacked meters, EQ, panning, pretty much everything. Just to have a simple volume control that is summed on the output, but have at least the capability to solo one of these channel.
This would be a nightmare to me. I don't know how everyone else is feeling about this.
I definitely need time for this video. And probably some heart treatment medicaments just in case. Though currently, Reaper is looking more and more interesting as both Production and Post-Pro environment. Especially(!) Post-Pro.
I don't give much about Vari-Audio or ATA for that matter. Barely needed to fix pitches.
I'm also a sucker for slight updates, especially if they are free. But currently, Cubase 7 looks like a guinea pig version for Cubase 8 and Nuendo 7 (if they don't drop 7 and go for 8 directly - to stay unified).
I am hesistant. Like, seriously. I consider myself a pro user of Cubase as well, but simply dropping the essential stuff from a console, just to have a more streamlined and "new" mixing environment?
It's as if I throw out my consoles, dig aroung in my "trashed equipment" box and find that one DIY 4 channel mixier I once had, which lacked meters, EQ, panning, pretty much everything. Just to have a simple volume control that is summed on the output, but have at least the capability to solo one of these channel.
This would be a nightmare to me. I don't know how everyone else is feeling about this.
I definitely need time for this video. And probably some heart treatment medicaments just in case. Though currently, Reaper is looking more and more interesting as both Production and Post-Pro environment. Especially(!) Post-Pro.
I don't give much about Vari-Audio or ATA for that matter. Barely needed to fix pitches.
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- KVRAF
- 5813 posts since 17 Aug, 2004 from Berlin, Germany
I'm not sure if it lacks some of this features like phase and stuff... because they have now different view modes, a exclusive mode, full-screen.. Some kind of "easy" mode. There is definitely a learning curve, because things are different (I will not say bad or complicated... only different 
).
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- KVRAF
- 19134 posts since 13 Feb, 2003 from Vancouver, Canada
Compyfox, what's your question? I'll ask my guy; Steinberg Canada responds quickly.Compyfox wrote:I still have to see a correct routing plan or flowchart of that channel strip (mixer environment) and the integration of both send and insert effects for that matter.
Seeing the "gain" and "phase" knob built into the CS is logical, but "unlocking" it from the rest and not leaving it on the "overall" channel strips (the mixer view) is just not intuitive. It's on major consoles (one simple button above the fader!), it's on every darn host on the market. Why not in this case as well?
I still(!!!) have to get an answer by Steinberg. Maybe I simply call them and file a FR - BEFORE Cubase is even released. This is stupid and unintuitive. Read: a step back to the stoneages.
Why?!
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- KVRAF
- 14658 posts since 19 Oct, 2003 from Berlin, Germany
I have a sh*t-tons of questions actually.
But most important to me is the new routing.
Formerly, it was Gain/Phase (on the old channel strip at top, in the channel view top left) -> Insert 1-6 -> EQ -> PAN/VOLUME -> INSERT 7-8
But now with the new environment it's gone?
How is the routing now?
According to the videos, it's Insert 1-6 -> EQ -> Insert 7-8 - then the new channel strip on top of everything.
But more logic to me()! would be the channel strip, with the inserts "between" the modules like gate, compressor, EQ, etc. (read: can I move the inserts to ANY POSITION I want?)
UNLESS... that white line in the videos (from the new insert view) declares where the channel strip is. But then I still need to know where the pre-post plugins of the channel strips will be put.
I want a manual to read actually. All this theoretical and promo stuff is driving me nuts. And for me as engineer, I need a certain guide what changed, how it changed, and how can I change it for me so that I have my old console back.
I don't want to go the PT or Logic route to load a separate gain plugin as first insert, then a VU as second one, then the console emulation as third and then have the rest available for my own FX.
Also... it's good that we can turn off plugins globally now. But not in rows like with ProTools. Why not? If one row is EQ's only, why can't we bypass that with one button or hotkey solution?
Then also important to me is the ability to setup the meters. This is essential to me, since I go by custom setups (reference levels). In old SX and up until C6 days this was handled through the program settings. Now with the inclusion of the new EBU R-128 meter - things seem to have changed.
Can I now run VU's and Digital meters side by side?
Can I set them up to my needs (300ms, 400ms k-weighted, color codes!)?
Or am I stuck with what Steinberg is giving me?
Then in the videos for Nuendo, there was a vertical "oscilloscope" view for the channel strips. Can that be viewed in Cubase as well?
What about the old "buttons to the left" where I could switch ALL channel strips to SEND view, or INSERT view, or EQ view? Is that still there?
Where are my knobs for the EQ view? Do I need to use that pseudo-3D block fader stuff? I work by ears, not by eye.
I seriously give a funk about new synths or plugins at this point, also VARI AUDIO. That Chord Track is a cool idea, if it's working like Harmony Navigator, it could be a serious competition to Cognitone's Synfire and I will definitely use it.
But most important to me, as audio engineer, is the mixing console. How my VST's are sorted (hated the system for VST3 plugins - now it seems even more funked up), can I free route now (backwards?), etc, etc, etc.
The rest doesn't interest me currently. Unless they really drop MIDI channels - I guess then I'll finally switch to Studio One (MIDI) or Reaper (audio editing).
But most important to me is the new routing.
Formerly, it was Gain/Phase (on the old channel strip at top, in the channel view top left) -> Insert 1-6 -> EQ -> PAN/VOLUME -> INSERT 7-8
But now with the new environment it's gone?
How is the routing now?
According to the videos, it's Insert 1-6 -> EQ -> Insert 7-8 - then the new channel strip on top of everything.
But more logic to me()! would be the channel strip, with the inserts "between" the modules like gate, compressor, EQ, etc. (read: can I move the inserts to ANY POSITION I want?)
UNLESS... that white line in the videos (from the new insert view) declares where the channel strip is. But then I still need to know where the pre-post plugins of the channel strips will be put.
I want a manual to read actually. All this theoretical and promo stuff is driving me nuts. And for me as engineer, I need a certain guide what changed, how it changed, and how can I change it for me so that I have my old console back.
I don't want to go the PT or Logic route to load a separate gain plugin as first insert, then a VU as second one, then the console emulation as third and then have the rest available for my own FX.
Also... it's good that we can turn off plugins globally now. But not in rows like with ProTools. Why not? If one row is EQ's only, why can't we bypass that with one button or hotkey solution?
Then also important to me is the ability to setup the meters. This is essential to me, since I go by custom setups (reference levels). In old SX and up until C6 days this was handled through the program settings. Now with the inclusion of the new EBU R-128 meter - things seem to have changed.
Can I now run VU's and Digital meters side by side?
Can I set them up to my needs (300ms, 400ms k-weighted, color codes!)?
Or am I stuck with what Steinberg is giving me?
Then in the videos for Nuendo, there was a vertical "oscilloscope" view for the channel strips. Can that be viewed in Cubase as well?
What about the old "buttons to the left" where I could switch ALL channel strips to SEND view, or INSERT view, or EQ view? Is that still there?
Where are my knobs for the EQ view? Do I need to use that pseudo-3D block fader stuff? I work by ears, not by eye.
I seriously give a funk about new synths or plugins at this point, also VARI AUDIO. That Chord Track is a cool idea, if it's working like Harmony Navigator, it could be a serious competition to Cognitone's Synfire and I will definitely use it.
But most important to me, as audio engineer, is the mixing console. How my VST's are sorted (hated the system for VST3 plugins - now it seems even more funked up), can I free route now (backwards?), etc, etc, etc.
The rest doesn't interest me currently. Unless they really drop MIDI channels - I guess then I'll finally switch to Studio One (MIDI) or Reaper (audio editing).
Last edited by Compyfox on Sat Nov 17, 2012 4:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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- KVRAF
- 19134 posts since 13 Feb, 2003 from Vancouver, Canada
Well, they show the guy freely rearranging the order of inserts in the Mixer View, but not sure if that can change the order of the channel strip inserts or not.Compyfox wrote:I have a sh*t-tons of questions actually.
But most important to me is the new routing.
Formerly, it was Gain/Phase (on the old channel strip at top, in the channel view top left) -> Insert 1-6 -> EQ -> PAN/VOLUME -> INSERT 7-8
But now with the new environment it's gone?
How is the routing now?
According to the videos, it's Insert 1-6 -> EQ -> Insert 7-8 - then the new channel strip on top of everything.
But more logic to me()! would be the channel strip, with the inserts "between" the modules like gate, compressor, EQ, etc.
UNLESS... that white line in the videos (from the new insert view) declares where the channel strip is. But then I still need to know where the pre-post plugins of the channel strips will be put.
I want a manual to read actually. All this theoretical and promo stuff is driving me nuts. And for me as engineer, I need a certain guide what changed, how it changed, and how can I change it for me so that I have my old console back.
I don't want to go the PT or Logic route to load a separate gain plugin as first insert, then a VU as second one, then the console emulation as third and then have the rest available for my own FX.
Also... it's good that we can turn off plugins globally now. But not in rows like with ProTools. Why not? If one row is EQ's only, why can't we bypass that with one button or hotkey solution?
Then also important to me is the ability to setup the meters. This is essential to me, since I go by custom setups (reference levels). In old SX and up until C6 days this was handled through the program settings. Now with the inclusion of the new EBU R-128 meter - things seem to have changed.
Can I now run VU's and Digital meters side by side?
Can I set them up to my needs (300ms, 400ms k-weighted, color codes!)?
Or am I stuck with what Steinberg is giving me?
Then in the videos for Nuendo, there was a vertical "oscilloscope" view for the channel strips. Can that be viewed in Cubase as well?
What about the old "buttons to the left" where I could switch ALL channel strips to SEND view, or INSERT view, or EQ view? Is that still there?
I seriously give a funk about new synths or plugins at this point, also VARI AUDIO. That Chord Track is a cool idea, if it's working like Harmony Navigator, it could be a serious competition to Cognitone's Synfire.
But most important to me, as audio engineer, is the mixing console. How my VST's are sorted (hated the system for VST3 plugins - now it seems even more funked up), can I free route now (backwards?), etc, etc, etc.
The rest doesn't interest me currently. Unless they really drop MIDI channels - then I show them the finger and switch to Studio One (MIDI) or Reaper (audio editing).
I'll ask, but I suspect it's too soon for my Canadian counterpart to know anything.
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- KVRAF
- 14658 posts since 19 Oct, 2003 from Berlin, Germany
This is what's intersting the most:
Can I move the inserts to ANY position of my liking? Where does this all relate to?
I've been through half of the Musotalk video, and NO futher info.
(additional: can I turn off the darn analyser?! is there "Loudness Track" there that is in Nuendo?)
Can I move the inserts to ANY position of my liking? Where does this all relate to?
I've been through half of the Musotalk video, and NO futher info.
(additional: can I turn off the darn analyser?! is there "Loudness Track" there that is in Nuendo?)
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- KVRAF
- 19134 posts since 13 Feb, 2003 from Vancouver, Canada
It's a fair question: where does the Channel Strip fall in the routing?Compyfox wrote:This is what's intersting the most:
Can I move the inserts to ANY position of my liking? Where does this all relate to?
I've been through half of the Musotalk video, and NO futher info.
(additional: can I turn off the darn analyser?!)
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- KVRAF
- 14658 posts since 19 Oct, 2003 from Berlin, Germany
IF there is a way go change the console from now on, then THIS will be my first feature request: put the inserts whereever I want to. Split in 6 slots (pre) by 6 slots (post), and not 6 by 2.
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- KVRAF
- 14658 posts since 19 Oct, 2003 from Berlin, Germany
So apparently, I still know jack about the routing and hope for the best. But I found a couple of japanese videos (which were hinted at by the MusoTalk 1 hour chat), that showed some slight details that actually make things easier. At least for me.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yql74vMz--8
This particular video has a focus on the new mixing console, and the presets you can save. You have three consoles still (three different setups). But the small detail that is standing out for me, is the color code setup. This was NOT mentioned anywhere (except for the manual, to which I still don't have access).
They actually improved on that, showing values now and no need for color fades anymore. That seems to be all built in. So this is actually a minor, but good improvement IMO. This also clears my quesion if I can setup the digital meter to my liking.
But, it does not clear if I can have different setups for loudness meter and peak meter. Or run them side by side. Though the MusoTalk video was mentioning, that you also have an RMS meter that you can choose aside from the R-128 meter. Though not known if there will be specific presets like K-System or whatever.
Nice to see in this video, is that your color codes will be used for "built in" plugins as well. This is actually a cool feature.
Then we have this video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cpz69VBtwI4
This gives a little bit more insight of the channel strip. Apparently, the channel strip is pretty much the "settings panel" between the inserts 1-6 and 7-8. At least to my understanding (did I mention that I still miss a manual?!).
What's actually bugging me, is that I miss out on the global gain/trim and phase button switch on the acutal channel in the mixer view. But it is now more flexibe (as mentioned earlier). It can be setup to pre/post (to my understanding, pre inserts - or "right at the beginning" of the whole chain), it has HP/LP and a phase button. In combination with the EQ - we therefore get 4 bands plus LP/HP (read: 6 bands, as can be seen with the EQ view). Another improvement.
But, I've still to see a proper routing matrix actually.
All in all, a bit more relieving, but I still have a load of questions. And no, don't ask me for a translation. I only understood a couple of bits with my "core japanese knowledge".
Domo arigato, Mr Roboto... oh wait - wrong place.
*cough*
Then on to the MUSOTALK video.
One hour of "non telling", at least nothing new. The ADA feature might not be implemented. It's cool with me - barely used VariAudio anyway.
The "MIDI channel" will eventually not be dropped. At least to what I got out of the video. But with one of the next major versions (or paid dot upgrades), chances are that the "Instrument Track" will be enhanced in terms of routing, outputs, etc. But it looks like the MIDI track will stay (thankfully).
The "Window Management" is on highest prio list, and might be done by Cubase 8. Maybe even 7.5 - but it will be "the" big feature in a major update, not a "minor" one. I'm used to the old system on Windows, Mac users don't need to care anyway. So there you go.
The DML (Digital Musician Link) system, now called VST Connect SE, will be released as "pro" version, with higher channel counts, encryption and probably more features. But it was apparent, that this is an evolution of the old DML software. Release and price is not known.
Speaking of "analog models" - the screenshots for the 1176 is actually a new GUI for the "Vintage Comp", same for the Tube Comp (it also got a new GUI). It's at least apparent with the Japanese presentation videos. Fine with me - haven't used them last time either since I use suitable alternatives.
In terms of price updates - I don't agree with the Steinberg representative. It's not "more fair" if people stayed with the updates. Granted, we only talk about 50 quid here, but 150 EUR for 6.5 -> 7, 199 quid for 6.0 -> 7 and 250 quid for C4/C5 -> 7. That's just as crazy as the last upgrade price politics. At least they didn't drop half of the content of former versions again. But we can definitely expect paid upgrades every 3/4th to 1 year from now on.
And regarding the grace period - well, all videos say "you get C7 as full version", but it looks like you only get C7 Artist. So I am NOT jumping on C6.5 out of despair. Unless I have it in writetn form "you get C7 Full". Then again, it won't be a physical copy, but an ISO off of their FTP again.
Still some time until 5th December. But Steinberg is slow in terms of answers. Unless you get into the lion pit called "Steinberg forums".
So yeah... if someone knows where to find the manual, please direct me to it. I'd love to read it BEFORE I update this time. Unless they dropped it in favor for the video tutorials - just like Spectrasonics. Then I'll drop the F-bomb, which can be seen up until the north pole.
The one time I want to read a manual, and then...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yql74vMz--8
This particular video has a focus on the new mixing console, and the presets you can save. You have three consoles still (three different setups). But the small detail that is standing out for me, is the color code setup. This was NOT mentioned anywhere (except for the manual, to which I still don't have access).
They actually improved on that, showing values now and no need for color fades anymore. That seems to be all built in. So this is actually a minor, but good improvement IMO. This also clears my quesion if I can setup the digital meter to my liking.
But, it does not clear if I can have different setups for loudness meter and peak meter. Or run them side by side. Though the MusoTalk video was mentioning, that you also have an RMS meter that you can choose aside from the R-128 meter. Though not known if there will be specific presets like K-System or whatever.
Nice to see in this video, is that your color codes will be used for "built in" plugins as well. This is actually a cool feature.
Then we have this video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cpz69VBtwI4
This gives a little bit more insight of the channel strip. Apparently, the channel strip is pretty much the "settings panel" between the inserts 1-6 and 7-8. At least to my understanding (did I mention that I still miss a manual?!).
What's actually bugging me, is that I miss out on the global gain/trim and phase button switch on the acutal channel in the mixer view. But it is now more flexibe (as mentioned earlier). It can be setup to pre/post (to my understanding, pre inserts - or "right at the beginning" of the whole chain), it has HP/LP and a phase button. In combination with the EQ - we therefore get 4 bands plus LP/HP (read: 6 bands, as can be seen with the EQ view). Another improvement.
But, I've still to see a proper routing matrix actually.
All in all, a bit more relieving, but I still have a load of questions. And no, don't ask me for a translation. I only understood a couple of bits with my "core japanese knowledge".
Domo arigato, Mr Roboto... oh wait - wrong place.
*cough*
Then on to the MUSOTALK video.
One hour of "non telling", at least nothing new. The ADA feature might not be implemented. It's cool with me - barely used VariAudio anyway.
The "MIDI channel" will eventually not be dropped. At least to what I got out of the video. But with one of the next major versions (or paid dot upgrades), chances are that the "Instrument Track" will be enhanced in terms of routing, outputs, etc. But it looks like the MIDI track will stay (thankfully).
The "Window Management" is on highest prio list, and might be done by Cubase 8. Maybe even 7.5 - but it will be "the" big feature in a major update, not a "minor" one. I'm used to the old system on Windows, Mac users don't need to care anyway. So there you go.
The DML (Digital Musician Link) system, now called VST Connect SE, will be released as "pro" version, with higher channel counts, encryption and probably more features. But it was apparent, that this is an evolution of the old DML software. Release and price is not known.
Speaking of "analog models" - the screenshots for the 1176 is actually a new GUI for the "Vintage Comp", same for the Tube Comp (it also got a new GUI). It's at least apparent with the Japanese presentation videos. Fine with me - haven't used them last time either since I use suitable alternatives.
In terms of price updates - I don't agree with the Steinberg representative. It's not "more fair" if people stayed with the updates. Granted, we only talk about 50 quid here, but 150 EUR for 6.5 -> 7, 199 quid for 6.0 -> 7 and 250 quid for C4/C5 -> 7. That's just as crazy as the last upgrade price politics. At least they didn't drop half of the content of former versions again. But we can definitely expect paid upgrades every 3/4th to 1 year from now on.
And regarding the grace period - well, all videos say "you get C7 as full version", but it looks like you only get C7 Artist. So I am NOT jumping on C6.5 out of despair. Unless I have it in writetn form "you get C7 Full". Then again, it won't be a physical copy, but an ISO off of their FTP again.
Still some time until 5th December. But Steinberg is slow in terms of answers. Unless you get into the lion pit called "Steinberg forums".
So yeah... if someone knows where to find the manual, please direct me to it. I'd love to read it BEFORE I update this time. Unless they dropped it in favor for the video tutorials - just like Spectrasonics. Then I'll drop the F-bomb, which can be seen up until the north pole.
The one time I want to read a manual, and then...
