do you think cubase is falling behind?

[sqigls]

falling behind what?

don't use cubase's built in plugins and get a real soundcard and you'll be much better off.

[BERFAB]

falling behind what?

don't use cubase's built in plugins . . . and you'll be much better off.

This might have been true back in the day, but there's now a wealth of effects and plugs that really indicate that Steinberg has stepped up their game.

For starters, PadPro and Retrologue aren't your father's Cubase plugs. These bad boys really can compete as standalone plugs.

And the new channel strip stuff is really quite good. And easily accessible.

And more and more, I find myself pleasantly surprised when I reach into the built in bag of tricks. Stopped using Melodyne a loooong time ago...

Cheers
-B

[trimph1]

falling behind what?

don't use cubase's built in plugins and get a real soundcard and you'll be much better off.

I think it fell in behind the sofa...

[sqigls]

I use the Cubase EQ, subtractively, but that's only because I own the CC121 and don't want to waste all those knobs

But seriously, Cubase is an awesome program to write music in, for someone such as myself who likes synths and getting into the nitty gritty of MIDI. As for being cutting edge though - i don't think Steinberg will EVER be able to claim that title. Steinberg are whack. Cubase though, is an awesome DAW in my opinion. I just prefer to use my own effects and instruments. There's just so many awesome plugins out there that have good browsers and useful patches, Cubase's patch system is a f**king pain in the ass. I hate that there is no FXP saving now for example. Exclusive shit like that is just plain old hat. Sharing is the way forward and Steinberg don't understand this, they have no mojo, no real character. Coolness evades them, like a teflon soul. Steinberg are cold-ass briefcase carrying douchbags, with no genuine connection to, or empathy for their userbase.


unfortunately

[fandango]

My problem with Steinberg is actually kinda the opposite.

They come out with these brilliant (dare I say, "cutting edge") composer-friendly technologies like VSTExpression and NoteExpression... and then completely fail to promote these new ideas or even to document them to a satisfactory level. Were it not for clued-up users like "vic france" I wouldn't have had much idea about how to create my own expression maps and would probably not have touched these features.

I fully expect them to abandon their new chord track with similar abandon.

[FrankT]

Steinberg (...) have no mojo, no real character. Coolness evades them, like a teflon soul. Steinberg are cold-ass briefcase carrying douchbags, with no genuine connection to, or empathy for their userbase.

Ok, fair enough.
But let me ask you: what is your opinion of Steinberg?

[sqigls]

yes... tough crowd tough crowd.

After a few times missing out on 'grace periods' by a day or two and constantly having my emails ignored or being told that their bugs are my fault, I have realised that they are far from community minded or quality driven.

I can't gel with Studio One, and Logic is a negatory... Ableton Live is a MIDI editors nightmare... maybe I should have a go of this Reaper stuff everybody is squealing about?...

[Aerio]

But does Reaper really, truly offer anything that Cubase don't? IMHO, it's mostly:

1. Low cost, and/or freely pirate-able
2. A bunch of goofy UI over-customize-ability that shouldn't be necessary with a proper UX design
3. A bunch of hacks and tricks to get more possible VST processing power, albeit it only matters on a slow computer, because a fast computer ought to be able to do what you need with any host.

4. free configurable multiband compressor with zero latency (!)

5. convolution reverb with zero latency (!)

6. free configurable multiple pitch shifter plugins

7. arrangement & mixer & all sends/inserts/instruments viewable (without scrolling) at once just on one 23" monitor

8. envelopes: free bezier shaping (!)

9. envelopes: sample accurate automation (Cubase fails here totally)

10. FX plugins per item

11. track items: free positioning/overlapping/stacking (also with audio), multiple sample rates

12. FX parameter modulation (eg. -> ducking)

13. fx sends pre-fx or post-pan possible

14. instrument stacking

15. instrument tracks with multi-channel-outputs

16. MIDI editor: automatic note length correction

17. video: independent from quicktime, WMV playback

18. plugin format support: DirectX, VST <2.4

19. plugin migration to newer versions easy (eg. replace Kontakt_4.dll with Kontakt_5.dll and name it just Kontakt.dll, do the same with all following versions). Very important if you want to load projects with new plugin versions, which is impossible with Cubase!

20. lowest footprint, practically crash-free (!)


Saying this, I'm no Reaper fanboy, rather doing Cubase since 1989. These are just my investigation results from a long time comparison Cubase/Reaper. Will I do the switch? I don't know yet. Because there ist one important point where Cubase wins: future prospect!

[chk071]

Will I do the switch? I don't know yet. Because there ist one important point where Cubase wins: future prospect!

Is there something i don't know? I saw the Reaper development seems to have slowed down significantly lately. Any signs of discontinuement?

[budweiser]

My problem with Steinberg is actually kinda the opposite.

They come out with these brilliant (dare I say, "cutting edge") composer-friendly technologies like VSTExpression and NoteExpression... and then completely fail to promote these new ideas or even to document them to a satisfactory level. Were it not for clued-up users like "vic france" I wouldn't have had much idea about how to create my own expression maps and would probably not have touched these features.

I fully expect them to abandon their new chord track with similar abandon.

I can't agree more.

[Aerio]

Is there something i don't know? I saw the Reaper development seems to have slowed down significantly lately. Any signs of discontinuement?

Nobody really knows.

This is the only point that causes tummyache. Regarding Reaper, everything stands and falls with just(in) one person. If he is well, the product is well as well. If he suffers from flatulences or lovesickness, the next implementation may be different. And if one day he would be completely sick of us f**kers and leaves the project, are we then in a dead-end road with all our artwork based on Reaper?

In the Steinberg development team, there sit dozens of developers and project managers. If one of them suffers from flatulences or lovesickness, nothing will change the direction of the company. And if 2 or 3 of them are leaving the job, they will be replaced by 2 or 3 new ones. Not to forget all the Yamaha background.

[chk071]

This is the only point that causes tummyache. Regarding Reaper, everything stands and falls with just(in) one person. If he is well, the product is well as well. If he suffers from flatulences or lovesickness, the next implementation may be different.

Yep, you're surely right about that. A common problem with that kind of small team developing.

[LawrenceF]

This is the only point that causes tummyache. Regarding Reaper, everything stands and falls with just(in) one person.

Not sure thats actually the case. It seems to me that there are two developers (Justin & Schwa) who do the bulk of the development.

It's interesting in cases like this because people often complain about larger corporate teams that are less nimble or interactive (see Sony), yet when you get a small team people complain about development speed. And no, publishing regular updates doesn't actually = faster development.

So on the one hand people go "Yay! They aren't a big corporate behemoth with 30 developers like Steinberg!!!" and on the other hand... "Why is it taking so long to get the features we want?!!".

Such is life for Reaper and Studio One, both relatively small dev teams.

DAW users can never really be pleased. They want a small responsive team to code as fast as a team of 40, and still to be just as nimble and respsonsive as a team of 3, and they want it all yesterday.

They (strangely) expect a team of 3 developers to do in a few years, everything it took 100 various developers over 15 years to do.

[SJ_Digriz]

SJ, you still in Prattville? If so, I need to ride down and have a beer with you.

Yeah, still here ... My youngest daughter is now at UAB, which is closer to your direction isn't it? Maybe we can catch a brew in Birmingham some time?