I am very surprised.

[mutools]

what you said mr mutools was a clear general judgement on your behalf that most users of your software who sell it would keep it and use it.

Where did i say that? Quote me.

[ObsoleteAcc99]

i am not going to get into this further.

I want to keep the topic unlocked.

So i will do the simple version by APOLOGISING if that's not what you were saying, and simply that i won't be a customer even if mux comes out for mac and is precisely something i need, or if mutools gains pdc one day, whilst you have a non transferrable policy.
This is coming from someone who was one of the original mboom customers EVER (yes i supported you when you were a nobody.. granted, i had plenty of money back then).. and has nothing to show for it at all as you stopped crossgrades. Cheers.

[mutools]

Jo, concerning the transfer fee : how do you see it?
I have a Mulab 3 UL license, a Mulab 4 XT license, what can be the fee for each version/level ? Will it not become a total mess ?

It all indeed is not that simple. I'll have to think this thru more.

What is sad is that the reality here is :
- Mulab and MUX are wonderfull products,
- and you are a wonderfull guy Jo : a great developper, and your support here in the Muttols forum is incredible !

But I must admit that if I were someone that don't know anything about Mutools and go to their site and see "The license is not tranferable" , or "There is a tranfer fee", I tend to pass my way go looking for something else, because in my mind this is associated with : "these guys are here for the money".

So for me, let the user sells his license if he wants, it will be just a few bucks because the price of Mutools products are already low.
And the way you do it (change the key when a new major version is out) will bring you new customers because if they love the product, they will certainly upgrade the next time !

I understand what you're saying, true things. But then: If i give support to user A and he sells his user key to user B and i must give the same support to user B and so on... then that's not fair to me. To compensate that i would have to raise the initial price. Or i would have to separate support from the product by offering support tickets. Both will also not be appreciated i think

[ObsoleteAcc99]

but what if user a has never asked for support? i have had this reply from a few companies when i asked to sell their software and to justify the fee, and i then replied, but before asking you for this transfer i have never actually asked you for one single bit of technical support? and they never responded to that

why not make it a case by case basis like spectrasonics ? even that is OK ($50 too high though).

[mutools]

i am not going to get into this further.
I want to keep the topic unlocked. So i will do the simple version by APOLOGISING if that's not what you were saying

Thanks, Appreciation & Respect.

and simply that i won't be a customer even if mux comes out for mac and is precisely something i need, or if mutools gains pdc one day, whilst you have a non transferrable policy.

I don't want to convince you about buying MU products, it's about the NFR topic here. That said, did you read my 'support' argument? What's your opinion on that?

(edit: crossed posts, just saw your reply)

This is coming from someone who was one of the original mboom customers EVER (yes i supported you when you were a nobody.. granted, i had plenty of money back then).. and has nothing to show for it at all as you stopped crossgrades. Cheers.

Did i ever treat you bad as a customer?

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[mutools]

but what if user a has never asked for support?

Yes i know, thought about that too, but how to measure that? I don't have an answer on that either atm.

why not make it a case by case basis like spectrasonics?

So only some users may transfer their user license key for free? I can imagine this can lead to heated discussions as well.

[ObsoleteAcc99]

No you NEVER treated me BAD.. i never asked for support though, other than "are there any crossgrades to mulab" and you said no.

I stopped looking into it then

BUT i still watch from the sidelines and i have a windows laptop that would be the one i carry with me if travelling, or if unwell and going to stay with parents for a few days, so i am still trying to decide what to use on that.. i would rather yank around a $600 laptop than a $2500 one, especially since my little nieces live with my parents ! hehe.

So mulab was on my radar for windows support and i got very excited when i saw multi core support, but was saddened to find still no pdc support.

I am deciding between tracktion, S1, and yours.. well i was...and i have ZERO problem by the way sending money you way as an all new program from mboom, no problems there, if you allow transfers and there is pdc. In fact, i hear it's very lightweight and mux since not on mac, could be a hoot to use on my windows laptop.

So i have no axe to grind OK? Honest and i am sorry if it came across that way.

I have a bit of a situation and reason for not being able to buy anything without a transfer policy. Quite bluntly i really do feel in 3 or 4 years my music days are over, for good. (health) I hate to say it publicly but that's why these news laws affect me so much and why i care.. and why i can't deviate.

Hence why i suggested perhaps case by case basis, and 10% transfer fee

all the best anyway,

Theo

PS just see this reply has had many in between, but i am sure you will work out when i was writing it

[mutools]

could you at least TRY to imagine that user A really stopped using your software for various reasons? why not try this for a second - even it is only for the sake of discussion ( i already learned that you don't trust your customers... )

Can you give me a reason why you think i did not yet?

That's not what this topic is about. Of course i respect the fact that people want to go other ways. If you would know me you would know how much i respect freedom. (maybe even too much! i mean: MuLab and the MUX give you A LOT of creative freedom, sometimes i think too much because only limited people understand=appreciate the deepness)

The question is: How to organize such transfer practically. I think this topic made clear there are many aspects about this. I hope we all are learning something from this.

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[mutools]

No you NEVER treated me BAD.. i never asked for support though, other than "are there any crossgrades to mulab" and you said no.

There was also a very practical legal reason for that. Because it would implicitly mean i had to access data that was not in my possession anymore. Hey and there were also many years between MBoom and MuLab, right?!

So mulab was on my radar for windows support and i got very excited when i saw multi core support, but was saddened to find still no pdc support.

Yeah it seems to be an important FR for many of you power users. I can't say much about it now (i mean R&D/ETA wise).

I am deciding between tracktion, S1, and yours.. well i was...and i have ZERO problem by the way sending money you way as an all new program from mboom, no problems there, if you allow transfers

So question: are you planning to resell it beforehand? I find it strange as a dev that you want this beforehand, even for a low priced product as MuLab/MUX. It's not that it costs you hundreds or thousands.

I have a bit of a situation and reason for not being able to buy anything without a transfer policy. Quite bluntly i really do feel in 3 or 4 years my music days are over, for good. (health) I hate to say it publicly but that's why these news laws affect me so much and why i care..

I'm sorry man. I hope the medics can help resolve the prob as good as possible. I don't know you personally but my intuition says i can mean that. So i mean it.

and why i can't deviate. Hence why i suggested perhaps case by case basis, and 10% transfer fee

I understand your point of view. As always i'm not a fast decider. I'm reading the arguments here, at the same time i also have counter arguments from dev side, which i listed here. Interesting topic. I'll certainly reflect on this more. Might take some time...

all the best anyway,

Theo

PS just see this reply has had many in between, but i am sure you will work out when i was writing it[/quote]

[ObsoleteAcc99]

all good. I just meant i want to know the option is there particularly cause of what i said.

I don't do what i used to do, ie. buy on a whim then sell.

I buy only what i demo and like and know what i will use now.. i have finally really managed to improve this.

So the ONLY reason, say i bought mulab and loved it, that i would EVER want to sell, is if i literally could not make music anymore (ie being 100% deaf, or something)

That is why i like to know before purchase, honestly, there's nothing more to it.. it's not some big plan to buy and sell LOL

[mutools]

as you keep repeating "user A is keeping his key after selling to user B" like a mantra...

Do NOT lay words in my mouth i did not say. Quote me. I asked several times to quote me. It's clear you don't dare to quote me because what you say is simply not true.

as said before there are other devs ( also without dongle protection ) that have to deal with the exact same situation and they give user A the benefit of doubt...

Every dev/person has its freedom. I'm open to dialog. Thank you.

[ObsoleteAcc99]

woah let's not get this too heated. I am going to point sonnox and mcdsp to the discussion and see what they have to say, so let's keep it open.

mutools, (is it Jo?) can i give you an opinion ? it DOES read that way, even though not directly said. I promise you some have gotten that instant impression when first reading what you wrote.. like what michi mak said.

The thing is, i actually believe you now that you didn't mean it that way, but i am just trying to say, please understand that it CAN be interpreted that way..

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