Is there any reason to use Reason anymore?

[overhishead]

Why move into an already overcrowded market? One could say that about every market.

One could, but it would not be correct. Particularly for the non-overcrowded markets.

One might ask why humans still reproduce with that same logic.

That is not the same logic. In fact that's probably one of the worst constructed straw men I've ever seen.

Hey sorry about the straw man but you deserved it.

Name one or two uncrowded markets that have a reliable demand quotient. If you are holding back on an economically depressed world of this sort of knowledge then shame shame shame.

[robogone]

Why move into an already overcrowded market? One could say that about every market.

One could, but it would not be correct. Particularly for the non-overcrowded markets.

One might ask why humans still reproduce with that same logic.

That is not the same logic. In fact that's probably one of the worst constructed straw men I've ever seen.

Hey sorry about the straw man but you deserved it.

That makes no sense whatsoever.

Name one or two uncrowded markets that have a reliable demand quotient. If you are holding back on an economically depressed world of this sort of knowledge then shame shame shame.

You really don't get how markets work do you.

[overhishead]

ok, lets just agree to disagree there boss. i'm a poet not a master debator.

and now back to Reason...

[EnochLight]

For me, I tend to stick to Reason because it just makes sense. I've tried Live, Logic, Sonar, and Reaper (of which I still use for the VST's that I own) and composing in Reason just feels right. I love the hardware rack paradigm, and I have multiple monitors where using Reason split is fantastic. I find many Rack Extensions useful and quite affordable. I find the routing, rear cables/CV, and modular nature of Reason second to none. There's a host of features I'd love to have still, but it's not enough to make me permanently jump ship.

I find Live's method of composing migraine-inducing; I find the fact that I had to keep a Mac just to run Logic ridiculous, though I did kind of like Logic - just not enough to keep my Mac; I found Sonar to be buggy (at the time I was using 4 through 7); I find Reaper to be a pain in the ass to setup/use/manage VST's in. I kept Reaper because it was the cheapest and all I needed was something to use my VST's in.

Many of the criticisms I've read in this thread hold merit; many are misguided or just plain wrong. I'm sure others may feel the same on my experience with many popular alternatives. I still think that people should just use what they want to use and be happy.

I do!

[Winstontaneous]

My reason for still using Reason is that it's fun and easy for me to finish things within its self-contained environment. That said, I use other DAWs (Tracktion, Renoise, Reaper, AudioMulch) and don't feel like spending money on Rack Extensions.

Now that Propellerheads have outsourced instrument/FX development they really need to focus on bringing the sequencer/editor capabilities up to snuff with the big boys. And the next major release should include some kind of powerful new synth(s) as part of the "factory" setup.

[progtronic]

It really depends on your style of music.

I had to move on from it a few years ago. The kind of electronic music I wanted to do couldn't really be done with Reason.. and I didn't want to deal with re-wire'g into another host.

So, with Studio One and Komplete.. I can get the basics that I used to get from Reason alone done.. plus I have the advanced sample library options I needed with Kontakt, and all the advantages of a world of VST options.

And I hate that freaking dongle.. wtf were they thinking?!..

Hi Rick! Haven't talked to you in ages...

-David

hey man! just replied to your PM and emailed ya.

so, anyways.. back on topic.

[KevWestBeats]

I like Reason always have. Is it perfect? No but I have yet to see anything in the audio world that is perfect. You find a set of tools you like and you get to doing what you love to do. These days I use a lot of vsti and I use Reason for the sound libraries I have and just rewire it. I don't use Reason in everything I do but I don't not use it. The no vst thing imo is a non issue unless you want a specific vst. My bigger problem with Reason is it lacks in core DAW features even though it is still a very complete song making tool and was my everything for music making for years and still very well could be if I wanted it to be I just want something different/new after 10 years of use.

[overhishead]

Is it easier on the cpu to use Rewire than to (hypothetically!) use Reason as a VST insert?

[Dogboy73]

I've used Reason since version 2.0. I've used lots of other DAWs before and during this time. But I somehow always find my way back to Reason. Since Record came out I've barely touched anything else, except maybe for some features I sorely needed in Reason, such as MIDI control of external hardware. But the iPad more than takes care of that for me now so Reason is the only 'DAW' I have installed on my machine. I've always found it solid, great to use and it just kid of makes sense. Most other things I've used have been great for the most part but all have given me headaches in one area or anther. Trying to get things to work that feel like they should be simple but aren't! I love the whole Rack Extension thing. I think something like this needed to happen in Reason. Adopting VST for me would not have worked at all. How would the plug-ins work in the Reason rack environment, which is a hugely important aspect of Reason's workflow. Propellerheads adopting VST would have been the wrong thing to do I think, so I'm glad it never happened. Anyway the bottom line for me, above all else, is that I just find Reason so nice to use. I love it. It's obviously not for everyone and ges a really hard time outside of the Reason community/user base. But you pays your money and takes your choice and we have a lot of choice out there now, which is good for everyone. Roll on Reason 7 because I think it's going to be the most interesting iteration of Reason so far

[tha_man]

I agree, the decline began with Reason 4. The simple sequencer that defined Reason prior to version 4 was actually superior to the new one IMO. That's one clear example of what I'd call "the stupidification of Reason": the introduction of boxed graphical icons for each device in the sequencer, eating up screen estate and generally making things more un-flexible.

I couldn't agree more. I've started using Reason with version 1.0.1 and I loved the original sequencer. But then they changed it to be clip based, which is exactly what I hated in other sequencers. It also used much more screen estate and blocks were pretty useless for me. If 3 had ability to sample like 5 does, this would be the perfect Reason for me - the modular instrument/sampler to use with my main daw (Logic). But 6 was just too much for what I was using it. So I'm on Renoise now and very happy with it. I started producing music on trackers (Amiga Protracker and then OctaMED), so it's kind of back to the roots. Only occasionally missing the piano roll for some more complicated melodies, but nothing's perfect...

[decalogue]

I agree, the decline began with Reason 4. The simple sequencer that defined Reason prior to version 4 was actually superior to the new one IMO. That's one clear example of what I'd call "the stupidification of Reason": the introduction of boxed graphical icons for each device in the sequencer, eating up screen estate and generally making things more un-flexible.

I couldn't agree more. I've started using Reason with version 1.0.1 and I loved the original sequencer. But then they changed it to be clip based, which is exactly what I hated in other sequencers. It also used much more screen estate and blocks were pretty useless for me. If 3 had ability to sample like 5 does, this would be the perfect Reason for me - the modular instrument/sampler to use with my main daw (Logic). But 6 was just too much for what I was using it. So I'm on Renoise now and very happy with it. I started producing music on trackers (Amiga Protracker and then OctaMED), so it's kind of back to the roots. Only occasionally missing the piano roll for some more complicated melodies, but nothing's perfect...

Nice. Have you tried using Reason & Renoise together (through ReWire)? It's a truly amazing combo.

[tha_man]

Nice. Have you tried using Reason & Renoise together (through ReWire)? It's a truly amazing combo.

I have them occasionally both rewired into Logic. I use Reason mainly for the NNXT sampler + piano roll nowdays, occasionally also for Redrum which I still love. Other devices are replaced with Renoise capabilities and VSTs, while for audio tracks and final mixing nothing beats Logic. it's really the best of all three worlds.

If I didn't have many unfinished tracks saved with Reason 5, I would go back to v3 or even 2.5, which I think was more efficient and stable (at least on PC).

[The Telenator]

It doesn't get expressed enough, but the obvious truth is that ALL DAWs are flawed and each has its own issues with occasional bugs and various shortfalls of features. Next, it's foolish to argue against any user's personal preferences in choosing a certain DAW over another. Someone may decide that a green skin is all that matters, and that is the influencing reason and end of discussion.

The only thing that truly concerns me regarding Reason is the recent change to the rack plugins availability. Many plugins have been and will be easy to port into this structure, but at the same time there will be some that will never make it into Reason racks for a handful of structural or design reasons. For someone brand new to DAWs and owning no plugins to begin with, choosing Reason as the preferred DAW may not be an issue; however, for potential users coming to Reason from other DAWs -- and already owning a significant assortment of plugins, particularly expensive ones, moving to Reason where the owned plugins will not work and, even if available for the rack, would have to be purchased a second time, the choice of Reason is essentially prohibitive, perhaps ridiculous as well.

In my own case, I have spent a solid two years plus, collecting the perfect assortment of plugins and spending considerable effort and a fair amount of cash to accomplish this. Therefore, no matter how well Reason performs it would truly be foolish to take on this DAW and then start purchasing rack versions -- if even available, which is a highly dubious situation in the first place -- and basically 'toss away' the collection I took all that trouble to perfect.

So, what I'm about to say is that from a strictly business point of view the rack concept in Reason is both brilliant and poor judgment at the same time -- brilliant because it can lock newer DAW users into place and generate steady income, and foolish because it will certainly turn away scores of professional and highly experienced DAW users who wisely refuse to forsake their plugin collections to face being forced to buy them twice over.

Whichever side you fall on, it must be admitted that the situation is truly unique and a new phenomenon. There is an ongoing criticism that we are now at a point of too many plugin platforms and that Reason's demand was 'the straw that broke the camel's back' (yet the same could be said of Avid's introduction of the new AAX format!). The Reason concept has some features in common with what is generally termed "bundling" in business, whether talking about software packages or home cable service. I'm very curious to know how this situation will work itself out. I'm rather well experienced with most popular DAWs, except Reason precisely because of this. Not that this matters much, except that the current situation even prevents me from becoming familiar in any serious way with this DAW.

Whatever results, I intend to follow Reason's progress if only out of great curiosity. It is extremely reassuring to see someone of Urs Heckman's status and ability launch his Uhbik FX plugins in a Reason rack. At the same time, and as I pointed out before, some of the world's finest plugins are never going to work in Reason. Some makers, of course, will refuse to port if they feel the adequate financial incentives are in place. Other devs who have looked into this closely will confirm all I'm trying to explain here. It's both a financial and a potential design structural problem. Meanwhile, serious Propellerheads continue to report satisfaction, while the rest of the world looks on from the outside.

Sorry this post is so lengthy, but at least it's not the incomprehensible off-topic dialog that went on several posts above in this thread.

[Dogboy73]

Good post, Telenator

[zootsuitk9]

Good post, Telenator

+1