Things I hate about... - Cubase 7

[syntheticillusion]

number one reason why i hate cubase is since version 6 windows xp is not supported. two i have cubase essentials 4 and wanted to buy cubase 5 full, the asshole at the music store said i don't need it and yes i do, cubase 7 is supported on windows 7, a jump i'm forced to jump since native instruments kontakt only works with win7, so when i buy this i won't be happy if yours guys problems happen to me but cubase 4 works better because i don't need online activation, i just plug my steinberg key which has the license installed on it already, has anyone tried doing this, reformat your pc or mac and use your already activated key on it and see if it works because it works for me using windows xp and my cubase 4 with the key.

[egbert]

Once the license is on your key, it will work with an installation of any computer - to run the installer you need an OS that the installer will work on.

[Tp3]

If you think that wiping your computer clean and re-installing EVERYTHING from the ground up just to get a single program to maybe, kinda, hopefully sorta work properly, wiping 100s of programs that operate properly, is a GOOD solution - there's something wrong there.

I didn't say "wiping everything". I did say : keep your current HD alive, pull it off, and try another one.

It's not just Compyfox, and it's not just here on KVR - the Steinberg forums are filled with the same kind of problems and have been since Cubase 7 dropped (if Helge Vogt hasn't censored them out of existence.) Gearslutz if full of the same issues.

Maybe, I was just trying to help. you wanna spit it all out on me ? cool. then I'm outa here.

Solutions? I've gotten solutions up the wazoo, including one from the California Steinberg techs that wreaked havoc on my system - and then had Steinberg's Guillame Navarette condescendingly lecture me that what I had to do to compensate for his own techs' idiocy was wrong. (The best solution came from a KVRer who suggested that I change the the Synchrosoft dongle to another USB bus. Worked like a charm, proved my assertion that my MOTU USB MIDI device was functioning flawlessly. But the Steinberg techs didn't seem to know nothing about that.)

I had the same thing last week, wheres Microsoft tech couldn't help me in activating my OS and their automatic system even suggested that "the software was not bought in your country" (?! ?!).

And why all that ? becuase the system clock could not be set properly upon OS installation, and exhibited the wrong data. so, I almost had to BUY a new OS, and re-install.
$h1t happens, you (we) have to acknowledge that.

So now you have two options : either try and FIX it, or continue to aggravate over it (I won't say "Whine").

Your call.

[CableChannel]

So, while mkdr is gone (which is good to end that unreal opera piece we were whitnessing here), his point that a max VST performance test would make sense is valid I guess. That does not mean that Steinbergs mid-stress test is meaningless, but it might have a worse signal-to-noise ratio, so to say. And, it would not be the first time the Steinbergs do something pathetically incompetent, right?

A whole different thing: I get random short ASIO dropouts (click noise) that are not even shown by the ASIO meter. If I have an envelope shaper as insert effect, it produces bad loud click noises, presumably because it gets out of order regarding the detection of attack and release phases. Seems to be a problem with the multicore or multithread setup? I mostly observe this when playing something live. When doing a playback I also get dropouts occasionally, but these are also shown by the ASIO meter as spikes, so they are one degree less spooky (though still completely annoying of course!)

Don't know how one can reliably test this as the dropouts are very erratic. And Steinberg will ingnore this for sure until I get to reproduce it somehow.

[Compyfox]

I want a healthy headroom.

Do you even know what a headroom is?

Headroom - definition:

Audio:

Headroom can be thought of as a safety zone allowing transient audio peaks to exceed the PML without exceeding the signal capabilities of an audio system (digital clipping, for example). Various standards bodies recommend various levels as Permitted Maximum Level.

General:

1. Electronics Dynamic headroom.
2. the additional power output capability of an amplifier when producing short-term peak signals.

Own definion:
Range between maximum peaking signal strength and maximum signal limit.


Yes - I do know what a headroom is.

I have left this thread now for good

So Long, and Thanks for All the Fish

Yet another troll comment. You've clearly violated Forum Rules point 2 and 3 several times. You've been warned. And I thank the mods for that.

I didn't say "wiping everything". I did say : keep your current HD alive, pull it off, and try another one.

Just a question out of pure curiosity here, and maybe a certain lack of understanding.

But... how has a different HDD with possible different transfer/handling speed any influence on ASIO load? I don't have issues while loading a host or plugins. That's suitable enough for me. I also have 3 HDDs at my disposal (OS, Record, Samples).

So why should a new HDD, and therefore a new OS installation with yet another test on a clean rig drastically improve things? That doesn't make sense to me.

It's like saying at a multi media store "I have issues with this game" and the only and ultimate answer is "did you install Direct X? Install Direct X - that fixes your problems".

$h1t happens, you (we) have to acknowledge that.

So now you have two options : either try and FIX it, or continue to aggravate over it (I won't say "Whine").

Your call.

I'm pretty much finished with trying to fix it. Now it's the turn by the developers. And if someone in here has (still) overlooked the following...


Steinberg is aware, I am in touch with them about this (though currently it's radio silent from their side) - they can't offer an immediate solution (hint: possibly not even within the C7.x cycle).

And considering the reports I'm also already reading regarding C7.5 - I think it's better to wait for C8 after all and hope that the negative backlash changes something in the future in terms of update cycles.

[juffi]

Just a question out of pure curiosity here, and maybe a certain lack of understanding.

But... how has a different HDD with possible different transfer/handling speed any influence on ASIO load? I don't have issues while loading a host or plugins. That's suitable enough for me. I also have 3 HDDs at my disposal (OS, Record, Samples).

So why should a new HDD, and therefore a new OS installation with yet another test on a clean rig drastically improve things? That doesn't make sense to me.

Wow compyfox this is a very noobish question. If you would work with Cubase (and not stresstest all the time..) you would see that you are having several audio tracks running trough your asio driver, sometimes when there is a big project like 100 tracks now watch your hard disk working on lower latencies. The faster the HDD the better. Thats a formula for QUITE a while.

I wonder why the heck you are complaining month over month about cubase and don't know what you are doing there?

[Compyfox]

And... another person that can't read:

3 HDDs:
No1 - OS (with hosts and VST/VSTi)
No2 - Recording / Projects (dedicated)
No3 - Samples (dedicated)

The Test project I have runs from HDD2 (which does have 32MB cache, 7200rpm, it's individual SATA pipe and doesn't register any % on the former HDD load meter btw!). And we merely talk about 16-24 tracks/channels. Which are a non issue.

If we talk about 128 to 256 (Cubase maximum btw) tracks at 96/32 rather than 32 to 64 tracks at 44/24, then I'd take the HDD into account. But I am not.

I wonder why the heck you are complaining month over month about cubase and don't know what you are doing there?

Sorry - but I think I know exactly what I'm doing here. I currently question the people that constantly throw around with crazy comments like "EIST is at fault" (which is not, see the PDF) and now even "your HDD is at fault", which is an absolute non issue.

Somebody please fill me in "why" you think that is a real issue here? Especially if the test projects access "one to four" sine/noise tracks alltogeher and I didn't have any issues so far with 48 tracks - only the ASIO engine?

Seriously - I'd like to know what this has to do with the whole ASIO issue to switch out HDDs - especially the OS one.


This is getting even more ridiculus with every consecutive post.

[Tp3]

I'm pretty much finished with trying to fix it. Now it's the turn by the developers.

OK.

You seem to be fixated. and I can't try and help those who DON'T WANT BEING HELPED, really...

As I've said before, in this post, the fact that the company "acknowledge" your problem doesn't necessarily say anything. but you keep bury your head in the sand...

What good might come out of a new OS ? I'll give you a hint : it would be a CLEAN OS... on ANOTHER DISC, for you to test. just a fresh OS, so you could rule out tweaks that might (and most probably DID) ruined SOMETHING.

But by all means... keep writing.

I'm outta here.

[Compyfox]

I ask once more - and I want an honest answer, with backups and all that jazz.


What would a DIFFERENT OS (on a new) HDD show?
Do you folks still don't get it? Do you even READ?

I reinstalled my friggin PC for the 6th time, every time from ground up, not with an image rollback (though I finally created one recently where I was happy with). I still don't have anything else than Firefox, OpenOffice and Cubase 6.5/7.06 (32bit/64bit) and Wavelab 8 (32bit/64bit) on it. No VST, no VSTi - this is a blank as it can get.


I tested Cubase on two different engines:
my i7 920, and an i5 4440 for a youth club studio
I got test results on a i7 2600...

Mainboards couldn't be any different. The HDDs I'm using are Seagate Barracuda's, the one's in the youth club studio are Seagate Spinpoints. There was NO f-ing DIFFERENCE!

No optimized OS vs. optimized OS - no difference
EIST/Speedstep and C1E on/off - no difference
CPU parking mod - 1% difference at max



So I ask again - what would a new HDD, with a fresh OS install - may it be optimized or not, bring new to the table?

The PDF already shows that the OS optimisation has no influence. So I'm still asking and wondering... why should a new HDD?


Honestly, tell me!
There must be a reason why you people constantly insist on such nonsense. I am not fixated, I want to understand before I blow out any more money to get a new HDD and waste another(!!) two to three days on this - just to rule out "your" opinion why this is happening.


Again - tell me!

[Tp3]

Can you revert to settings before the OC ? (yes, I know... but still)

PLUS

(this is a crazy one) how many slots are occupied by your RAM. if two, can you switch to another slots ?

[Katzy]

Hi,
Just to update you all. I did look more into temperature issue, it seems the temperature readout on my monitoring software is bonkers, tried some different software and confirmed in BIOS. It does seem the CPU was being throttled.
I disabled speedstep also and forced the fans to default maximum constantly.
This has improved things significantly. I haven't had a chance to do a proper full on stress test just yet, but even with small projects it has now improved dramatically. I will however still say that Cubase 7 on the new PC still looks like it's using a good 20% more ASIO time compared to what I was used to seeing on the ol' X58 system.

TheoM the fans are Noctua N12 C Clamp version. Lots of Noiseblocker Eloops etc around the case as well. I'm going to create more air vents to the case as well since it's a server case and seems to only be doing the job with cooling with the lid open at the moment as a temporary measure.

The system is a beauty, saved for quite some time for this so really want it purring along nicely!

Thanks again for all the suggestions guys. I'll post again if problems persist, otherwise I'll just follow the thread.

Best,
Kate.

Yeah to be honest I wasn't entirely sure if Cubase would be affected. I was just totally running out of ideas!
I disabled power saving features in the BIOS, but just tried the speedstep EIST(?), after disabling that, I have noticed the CPU temperature shot up after a few minutes, I then tried Cubase again and noticed this time the temperature going up quite a bit. So I think we're onto something here. If I'm guessing rightly based on what somebody suggested it may be dipping the core frequencies to keep that temperature down. I'm just doing a stress test now with all fans forced to max to check this out... fingers crossed.

Thanks again for suggestions...

--
Kate.

what cooler are you using Kate?


The temps shoudl stabilize with any good modern air cooler. Noctua, xigmatek for example.

You have such high quality parts, i mean, all SSD as well, must have cost a small fortune, so do make sure the case and fan are all up to the job!

[Compyfox]

Can you revert to settings before the OC ? (yes, I know... but still)

PLUS

(this is a crazy one) how many slots are occupied by your RAM. if two, can you switch to another slots ?

Okay - not THIS... is getting ridiculus! Next thing you tell me, is that the PSU is to blame!


If I tested (and let test) on three different rigs (i7 920, x58, Tripple channel // i5 4440, B85, dual channel // i7 2600, z68, dual channel) and the redouts are the same(!!!) or highly similar... it is not my rig. The "recommendations" to test further are absolute over the top idiotic.

The OCing was done by myself (in consultation with ScanPro Audio!) to even get more(!) ASIO processing power on the long run, which paid off (it gave me a boost of about 5-10%!).

So stop it right there! No more of this crap.
This turned into a complete BS trainwreck since mkdr posted and started his nonsense. I will not pull my PC apart, lick the pins of the spareparts and put them back in at a different order, just to see if it makes any difference.


It's enough that I'm a paying guinea pig for Steinberg, but this tops everything(!) I've seen so far.

It does seem the CPU was being throttled.
I disabled speedstep also and forced the fans to default maximum constantly.
This has improved things significantly. I haven't had a chance to do a proper full on stress test just yet, but even with small projects it has now improved dramatically.

Good that it worked for you, on my rig (I am on x58 still), it showed no significant difference. What did work (for another 1% or so - 1% is still better than nothing) was the "Core Parking" mod. For this I used the tool "Park Control"

I will however still say that Cubase 7 on the new PC still looks like it's using a good 20% more ASIO time compared to what I was used to seeing on the ol' X58 system.

Since you've tried a lot yourself now as well - I can't tell you why this is happening other than "software error".

And since the flood gates are open already, I do not(!) make any further assumptions what is to blame here. In my case, I am 100% sure. In your case - I can't help.

Thanks again for all the suggestions guys. I'll post again if problems persist, otherwise I'll just follow the thread.

I don't want to admit it, but I guess it's slowly down to "nothing to see here anymore".

The thread went into a complete nonsense direction, Steinberg also announced 7.07 being the final "fix" for users that refused to play along the "pay to get updates" game, and I don't see any significant improvements until C8 is out.


My "pay to beta test" ends in January 7.07 latest - I will wait until C8 and look for alternatives in the meantime (should it bomb again as well), while I try to get things done with C7.0x (since I'm so used to it now).

Unless I find a sponsor that funds C7.5 and thinks I should continue this... "non-fun game".

[Tp3]

Compy... I don't know what to say.

The only thing I can suggest is to contact Vin Curigliano from DAWbench (he build DAWs himself) if you haven't done so.

I'd advise you to try DAWbench but you wouldn't listen anyway... anyway, good luck fella

[DuX]

I dislike the number 7 somewhat. I liked 6 better and especially 5. They could have kept the V5 but make it like they do it in Open Source v5.689 then v5.690 etc... instead they go the way of FireFox: v11, v21, v52.5, v165.3 LOL

[Compyfox]

Compy... I don't know what to say.

Neither do I about this thrown around nonsense.

The only thing I can suggest is to contact Vin Curigliano from DAWbench (he build DAWs himself) if you haven't done so.

I am in touch with Pete Gardner from ScanPro audio and some very, very skilled KVRians on top of my own initial IT training.

Care to fill me in why I need to contact "Vin" now as well? Am I not "skilled enough" to handle or configure a PC or something? Had the wrong training I guess.

I'd advise you to try DAWbench but you wouldn't listen anyway... anyway, good luck fella

Never said I wouldn't - I said "not today anymore", I've tested quite enough in the last couple of months, don't you think?

The DAWbench project it's still a specific test that doesn't show "compatibility", "stability" and "behavior" of Cubase over several rigs and OSes. It shows's "what's possible at max", with whatever hardware/software you use. DAWbench is a plain CPU stress test.

Apples and Oranges.


I am furthermore still waiting for suitable arguments on the new HDD/new OS thing, also on the RAM switch (other than having more RAM - which still isn't an issue on my end) on top of what I already did so far.

Sorry, but answers weren't satisfying yet (not to mention that I still miss the "understanding" part) and pulled out of thin air.

They could have kept the V5 but make it like they do it in Open Source v5.689 then v5.690 etc... instead they go the way of FireFox: v11, v21, v52.5, v165.3 LOL

With one difference - Mozilla doesn't charge for interim versions and explicitly states that this browser is in constant development. Even has a behavior tracker built into. They also announce their update cycles way beforehand, but not every update funks over the former one.

Else, yes the trend is to have one major version every other year, if not every year since C6. I'm surprised that Steinberg didn't name this C8 already. Though personally I will actually call v7.5 "paid beta 8.0".