The All In One Source Bitwig Information & Speculation Thread

[virtualmark]

Exactly - you expect the automation to be where you put it, not some arbitrary amount out of sync. Lets be honest - if it were for something like audio, and every kick or snare that you placed on the grid would slip out of time, there would be no doubt that the DAW was broken. But with automation it's different, as everyone uses it differently.

The other reason I know for a fact that it's a bug, is that it was mentioned on the Ableton forum many years back and they confirmed that they were working on a fix. Then the manual was changed and this bug was changed to a feature request. I lost a ton of respect for them over this issue.

[virtualmark]

Sometimes I wonder if this even applies to me or not with how I use live. I don't feel that there is a problem but then again I don't use the arrangement view much. I generally prefer to export my files and work in studio one if I want to get into automation and the like.

Yeah it really depends on the plugins you use and how you make music. It only really affects people using tight automation and long effects chains.

But it can be bad for anyone - just one instance of Fabfilter Pro-Q set to maximum latency(linear phase) will send the whole DAW out of sync. The interface is delayed and it's a nightmare to work with.

[humanbeingbeing]

arguing over whether the lack of PDC on automation is a bug or a feature is irrelevant. It is 2014, it has been requested for many years (regardless of what it is). It is right at the top of many people's request list... IMO it should have been in Live 9. I hope it is in Bitwig. It is important to many people whether it's important to you or not.

[ZenPunkHippy]

From a developer point of view, PDC in Live is definitely a "feature" and not a "bug". A bug implies something does not work as designed, and it's clear Live was never designed to have PDC.

If PDC was half implemented and only worked sometimes that would be an actual "bug", but it was never included in the first place so it can't be a "bug".

Failing to comprehend this, or arguing otherwise because you don't like how it's designed, does not change the fact that PDC is ... in fact ... a feature request

[humanbeingbeing]

From a developer point of view, PDC in Live is definitely a "feature" and not a "bug". A bug implies something does not work as designed, and it's clear Live was never designed to have PDC.

If PDC was half implemented and only worked sometimes that would be an actual "bug", but it was never included in the first place so it can't be a "bug".

Failing to comprehend this, or arguing otherwise because you don't like how it's designed, does not change the fact that PDC is ... in fact ... a feature request

Failing to comprehend this? arguing otherwise? repeat again, your point is MOOT, IT IS IRRELEVANT... it doesn't matter at this point... either way, if Ableton lacks this 'feature' (Ha), then it lacks a feature a lot of people need. If it's a 'bug' then it needs to be fixed. AND- this 'feature request' has been requested for YEARS. Your pedantic knit-picking is pointless. Comprehend that.

[Echoes in the Attic]

From a developer point of view, PDC in Live is definitely a "feature" and not a "bug". A bug implies something does not work as designed, and it's clear Live was never designed to have PDC.

If PDC was half implemented and only worked sometimes that would be an actual "bug", but it was never included in the first place so it can't be a "bug".

Failing to comprehend this, or arguing otherwise because you don't like how it's designed, does not change the fact that PDC is ... in fact ... a feature request

Failing to comprehend this? arguing otherwise? repeat again, your point is MUTE, IT IS IRRELEVANT... it doesn't matter at this point... either way, if Ableton lacks this 'feature' (Ha), then it lacks a feature a lot of people need. If it's a 'bug' then it needs to be fixed. AND- this 'feature request' has been requested for YEARS. Your pedantic knit-picking is pointless. Comprehend that.

It's actually quite simple. It is not a bug. It is a design flaw. They are different things. Kind of like how "moot" and "mute" are different things.

[virtualmark]

From a developer point of view, PDC in Live is definitely a "feature" and not a "bug". A bug implies something does not work as designed, and it's clear Live was never designed to have PDC.

If PDC was half implemented and only worked sometimes that would be an actual "bug", but it was never included in the first place so it can't be a "bug".

Failing to comprehend this, or arguing otherwise because you don't like how it's designed, does not change the fact that PDC is ... in fact ... a feature request

Wow. How ironic, as it is you who has failed to understand the issue. PDC is active in Ableton, but guess what? It only works sometimes. It works for everything but automation and send/return tracks.

This is why it was initially reported as a bug, as I stated above.

[humanbeingbeing]

From a developer point of view, PDC in Live is definitely a "feature" and not a "bug". A bug implies something does not work as designed, and it's clear Live was never designed to have PDC.

If PDC was half implemented and only worked sometimes that would be an actual "bug", but it was never included in the first place so it can't be a "bug".

Failing to comprehend this, or arguing otherwise because you don't like how it's designed, does not change the fact that PDC is ... in fact ... a feature request

Wow. How ironic, as it is you who has failed to understand the issue. PDC is active in Ableton, but guess what? It only works sometimes. It works for everything but automation and send/return tracks.

This is why it was initially reported as a bug, as I stated above.

That's ironic? you don't know what irony is apparently. It doesn't even take a tiny bit of intelligence to 'understand the issue'. The issue is dead and buried, we all get what you are trying to say over and over again... what you't do get, is how little your point matters... all we care about is PDC automation and whether it will be in Bitwig or (lol) Ableton one day.... and ' It works for everything but automation and send/return tracks.' OMG thats funny.

[Ogopogo]

From a developer point of view, PDC in Live is definitely a "feature" and not a "bug". A bug implies something does not work as designed, and it's clear Live was never designed to have PDC.

If PDC was half implemented and only worked sometimes that would be an actual "bug", but it was never included in the first place so it can't be a "bug".

Failing to comprehend this, or arguing otherwise because you don't like how it's designed, does not change the fact that PDC is ... in fact ... a feature request

You can comprehend that just fine and still think its worth being called a bug. It may be working how it was intended, but it isn't working right. Automation goes out of time. That's messed up automation. If you design a bike and the brakes kick in a half a second after you squeeze them that's still a problem whether the designer knew that was part of the design or not.

In my original post on the issue I said that I could see it both ways but then edited for clarity. I can see why you would call it either one. It still needs to be fixed for the daw to work as expected though.

But yeah I guess its a moot (not mute) point; semantics. You could define bug with a strict definition or use it to describe something that could be fixed that is interfering with the system working correctly. I don't think that's too much of a leap.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YIkJ4BUChxI

[Echoes in the Attic]

From a developer point of view, PDC in Live is definitely a "feature" and not a "bug". A bug implies something does not work as designed, and it's clear Live was never designed to have PDC.

If PDC was half implemented and only worked sometimes that would be an actual "bug", but it was never included in the first place so it can't be a "bug".

Failing to comprehend this, or arguing otherwise because you don't like how it's designed, does not change the fact that PDC is ... in fact ... a feature request

Wow. How ironic, as it is you who has failed to understand the issue. PDC is active in Ableton, but guess what? It only works sometimes. It works for everything but automation and send/return tracks.

This is why it was initially reported as a bug, as I stated above.

That's ironic? you don't know what irony is apparently. It doesn't even take a tiny bit of intelligence to 'understand the issue'. The issue is dead and buried, we all get what you are trying to say over and over again... what you't do get, is how little your point matters... all we care about is PDC automation and whether it will be in Bitwig or (lol) Ableton one day.... and ' It works for everything but automation and send/return tracks.' OMG thats funny.

Haha, now that's funny. The guy you are arguing with is agreeing with you!

[humanbeingbeing]

From a developer point of view, PDC in Live is definitely a "feature" and not a "bug". A bug implies something does not work as designed, and it's clear Live was never designed to have PDC.

If PDC was half implemented and only worked sometimes that would be an actual "bug", but it was never included in the first place so it can't be a "bug".

Failing to comprehend this, or arguing otherwise because you don't like how it's designed, does not change the fact that PDC is ... in fact ... a feature request

You can comprehend that just fine and still think its worth being called a bug. It may be working how it was intended, but it isn't working right. Automation goes out of time. That's messed up automation. If you design a bike and the brakes kick in a half a second after you squeeze them that's still a problem whether the designer knew that was part of the design or not.

In my original post on the issue I said that I could see it both ways but then edited for clarity. I can see why you would call it either one. It still needs to be fixed for the daw to work as expected though.

But yeah I guess its a moot (not mute) point.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YIkJ4BUChxI

I would't waste my time arguing over this bug or feature point, all it is, is a defense mechanism for Ableton fans, because you are absolutely correct, it's a necessity whether he's happy with his IMO inferior 'feature'. Thank you for correcting my spelling, but lets not give any ammunition for ad hominem remarks, because you know the Ableton folks love to dismiss cogent, solid arguments just because you make spelling mistakes... some people are that petty...

[Ogopogo]

^Sorry I edited that post a bit after you got to it.

"Design flaw" is the most appropriate term though I guess. Anyway, this thread seems to be in it's death throes. I don't want to contribute to any ad hominems against ableton folks either.

[humanbeingbeing]

From a developer point of view, PDC in Live is definitely a "feature" and not a "bug". A bug implies something does not work as designed, and it's clear Live was never designed to have PDC.

If PDC was half implemented and only worked sometimes that would be an actual "bug", but it was never included in the first place so it can't be a "bug".

Failing to comprehend this, or arguing otherwise because you don't like how it's designed, does not change the fact that PDC is ... in fact ... a feature request

Wow. How ironic, as it is you who has failed to understand the issue. PDC is active in Ableton, but guess what? It only works sometimes. It works for everything but automation and send/return tracks.

This is why it was initially reported as a bug, as I stated above.

That's ironic? you don't know what irony is apparently. It doesn't even take a tiny bit of intelligence to 'understand the issue'. The issue is dead and buried, we all get what you are trying to say over and over again... what you't do get, is how little your point matters... all we care about is PDC automation and whether it will be in Bitwig or (lol) Ableton one day.... and ' It works for everything but automation and send/return tracks.' OMG thats funny.

Haha, now that's funny. The guy you are arguing with is agreeing with you!

I'm not arguing with you... again your interpretation of what is actually happening here is incorrect... we're not arguing over this issue 'bug' or 'feature', I am making the suggestion that the debate is over... as in no argument. as in the argument in 2014 is over and hopefully it'll be settled by Bitwig.

[virtualmark]

That's ironic? you don't know what irony is apparently. It doesn't even take a tiny bit of intelligence to 'understand the issue'. The issue is dead and buried, we all get what you are trying to say over and over again... what you't do get, is how little your point matters... all we care about is PDC automation and whether it will be in Bitwig or (lol) Ableton one day.... and ' It works for everything but automation and send/return tracks.' OMG thats funny.

Please, don't tell me that I don't know what a word means. Judging from your posts, you have a lot to learn about the English language, so lets just leave it at that.

The issue is most certainly not dead and buried, I don't know why on Earth you would say that. It will only be dead and buried when it is fixed.

[humanbeingbeing]

^Sorry I edited that post a bit after you got to it.

"Design flaw" is the most appropriate term though I guess. Anyway, this thread seems to be in it's death throes. I don't want to contribute to any ad hominems against ableton folks either.

I'll accept 'design flaw'... I will still never forgive Ableton for not addressing this 'design flaw' in Live 9. I haven't written a single note in that app since I found out about it and I never will again.