KVR Audio

Ogopogo · Post by **Ogopogo** » Mon Mar 17, 2014 7:22 pm

@sl1914 Ok I see your point but I'm not sure how to phrase that any clearer because it's still true that what they call the "native modular system" is not going to be in there until v2.

Also

pro - Linux support

Ogopogo · Post by **Ogopogo** » Mon Mar 17, 2014 7:28 pm

nechronics wrote:There is shuffle and groove. One of the recently posted livid videos demonstrates them.

OK this is the vid you are thinking of, right?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JU70wII ... TA2eDokpMw

Thanks for posting by the way.

Ok according to that video it seems that Bitwig refers to its shuffle and accent control as the groove tools. This is different from ableton's "groove pool" which, as I understand it (never really used it) lets you save a custom timing grid so you can replicate the timing from an mpc or something.

So maybe we should say "con - no custom grooves" and "pro - accent control?"

Ogopogo · Post by **Ogopogo** » Mon Mar 17, 2014 7:44 pm

pro - automate pitch bends per note for factory devices

pdxindy · Post by **pdxindy** » Mon Mar 17, 2014 7:50 pm

Ogopogo wrote:I left that one out because I am not totally sure of that. There was an exchange a couple of pages back or so where Kennyda said there was groove quantize. I asked for some clarification as to whether that meant just shuffle or custom grooves and have not heard back. If any tester could confirm that would be good.

What was stated previously is that there is swing but no groove control

In Ableton, you can extract grooves, save them in the groove pool and apply them via percentage to any clips one wants. One can keep it non destructive or fix it to the notes. So you can play a part yourself and extract that groove. Great feature.

Ogopogo · Post by **Ogopogo** » Mon Mar 17, 2014 8:00 pm

^ok So I'll add "con - no groove pool/custom grooves" and "pro - global accent control"

also "con - no rewire support"

Ogopogo · Post by **Ogopogo** » Mon Mar 17, 2014 8:03 pm

Does ableton have global shuffle control? If not I'll make it "global and per clip accent and shuffle control."

Ogopogo · Post by **Ogopogo** » Mon Mar 17, 2014 8:12 pm

pro - usd 399

Echoes in the Attic · Post by **Echoes in the Attic** » Mon Mar 17, 2014 8:40 pm

Pros:
-Parameter pages and naming/arranging for every device (even built in ones)
-Return channel and master channel clips
-Device parameter search/filter
-32 bit and 64bit plug-ins
-You can see the instruments and effects in mixer view (Ableton has a tweak for this but I think it has problems and isn't an official feature, unless things changed)
-Arrangement view just looks better and more similar to other DAWs (yes I think this is important)

Cons:
-Drum Racks don't have their own sends
-The FM synth appears much more basic than operator
-Missing some cool effects like grain delay, corpus, amp etc.
-VST only (no AU)

Unkown"
-Will hardware be able to do per step automation like Push can do in Ableton?

pdxindy · Post by **pdxindy** » Mon Mar 17, 2014 8:49 pm

Echoes in the Attic wrote: -You can see the instruments and effects in mixer view (Ableton has a tweak for this but I think it has problems and isn't an official feature, unless things changed)

Yeah, the names do not show up until you change width... so, yeah, it has problems

pdxindy · Post by **pdxindy** » Mon Mar 17, 2014 8:53 pm

I consider it a con that Bitwig lists all the vst device parameters and does not have the option to just add the ones you want to automate like Live.

Also Con

Bitwig instrument layers do not have as good vel/key split controls like Live racks. (No blend controls)

sl1914 · Post by **sl1914** » Mon Mar 17, 2014 9:05 pm

pdxindy wrote:I consider it a con that Bitwig lists all the vst device parameters and does not have the option to just add the ones you want to automate like Live.

I hope they'll add an option to show only those you automate - like Live has for clip envelopes.

codec17 · Post by **codec17** » Mon Mar 17, 2014 9:19 pm

Echoes in the Attic wrote: Cons:
-Drum Racks don't have their own sends

Aaaah really?

This is a big bummer for me.

virtualmark · Post by **virtualmark** » Mon Mar 17, 2014 9:21 pm

codec17 wrote:
Echoes in the Attic wrote: Cons:
-Drum Racks don't have their own sends
Aaaah really? This is a big bummer for me.

A simple workaround would be to have a few drum rack tracks, as from what I understand you can edit multiple midi clips at once. It's not ideal, but should be workable.

Ogopogo · Post by **Ogopogo** » Mon Mar 17, 2014 9:29 pm

Echoes in the Attic wrote:Pros:
-Parameter pages and naming/arranging for every device (even built in ones)

Ok, can you explain this one to me so I know what I'm writing down, I was not paying attention when we went over it orginally. Is it just multiple pages of macro controls as opposed to ableton's eight controls on the one page?

Echoes in the Attic wrote:-32 bit and 64bit plug-ins

Ok, whats the whole deal with Live and Bitwig's plug support? Is it 64 and 32 bit plugs in the 64 bit versions or is it no 32 in the 64 bit version of Live or what?

Echoes in the Attic wrote:-You can see the instruments and effects in mixer view (Ableton has a tweak for this but I think it has problems and isn't an official feature, unless things changed)

I dunno if this is significant enough, but maybe it's more important to others than to me.

Echoes in the Attic wrote:-Arrangement view just looks better and more similar to other DAWs (yes I think this is important)

This strikes me as a matter of opinion and also something that you could easily tell from a screenshot so I think I might leave it off.

Echoes in the Attic wrote:-Drum Racks don't have their own sends

It seems you can still use sends for each individual drum pad, you are just sending to the main sends instead of setting up another set of sends within the drum rack, right? I actually much prefer it this way as long as it doesn't create an problems like making it convoluted to automate or map the control, which I'm guessing it doesn't. So I also think this is a matter of opinion so I'm going to leave it off.

Echoes in the Attic wrote:-The FM synth appears much more basic than operator
-Missing some cool effects like grain delay, corpus, amp etc.

As far as comparing fx capabilities I think that's opening a can a worms. Bitwig is missing some stuff that ableton has been then again it has some stuff that ableton doesn't such as the blur, transient control, drum synths, step mod, replacer, and a few others. I don't think when it comes to effects you can say one is superior to others so maybe the best thing to do is to just include a list of all the effects that come with each. I've already got a pdf with screenshots of all the bitwig effects that I can link to.

And I'll add the rest. Hopefully it doesn't feel like I've nixed all your ideas, just trying to keep the list focused.

pdxindy wrote:I consider it a con that Bitwig lists all the vst device parameters and does not have the option to just add the ones you want to automate like Live.

Also Con

Bitwig instrument layers do not have as good vel/key split controls like Live racks. (No blend controls)

First one seems like a matter of opinion, or at least not super significant.

Ogopogo · Post by **Ogopogo** » Mon Mar 17, 2014 9:32 pm

codec17 wrote:
Echoes in the Attic wrote: Cons:
-Drum Racks don't have their own sends
Aaaah really? This is a big bummer for me.

I just wrote this in my other post but just so it doesn't get lost in there: You can still use sends on an individual drum pad as you can see in this screen shot: http://www.screendream.de/stuff/Bitwig/ ... Groups.jpg

So it's just a different process than the ableton way of setting up your own sends within the drum rack instrument. I actually prefer having the sends on the mixer strips instead.

The All In One Source Bitwig Information & Speculation Thread