The All In One Source Bitwig Information & Speculation Thread

[LawrenceF]

Not that I personally use Linux, but Linux users should be (I would suppose anyway) pretty happy about this.

Is there anything currently on Linux that even comes close to that general feature set for doing that kinda musical thing? Just asking... I do know Tracktion is also on Linux now too though.

[jeffh]

Using default VBox supplied Intel driver. Installed Ubuntu with the default settings. Test audio plays OK in the Sound Settings dialog.

In Bitwig ALSA is selected for "Audio System" + Intel 82801AA-ICH selected as the output device.

The audio is breaking up at any buffer size.

I'm not sure if updated or different drivers are required, checked a few resources but could not find anything obvious to fix the problem.

I've found Linux VM audio playback in Virtualbox to be pretty smooth(haven't tried Bitwig though), but only when the "Intel ICH AC97" driver is selected in the VM settings and only when the application playing is using ALSA directly... Any other settings/drivers/back-ends usually do lead to a metric shit-load of pops and clicks.

Then, there's the "Host Audio System" setting in the VM settings that can have a profound effect on performance, but the available subsystems will be specific to each PC....

[Ogopogo]

Here's the pros/cons list I have right now guys, see if there's anything wrong with it. Remember I want it to be more and an overview rather than getting too into the nitty gritty stuff which could be open to opinion or too hard to cover comprehensively. Specifically I'm worried about listing a bunch of Bitwig's little pluses and then missing some of the little cons because we are too caught up with it.

Pros:
Arrange clip launcher
Hybrid audio/midi tracks
Track based midi
Layered midi editing (view and edit multiple tracks and the same time)
Modulate anything with simple click and drag based modulation system, even vst parameters
Full screen edit view
Metadata based browser
Open javascript controller support
More flexible window system (support for 3 monitors, view mixer in the arrange view, and more)
Open multiple audio/midi editors at once
Open multiple projects at once with tabs
Multiple audio events within an audio clip (editing within audio items)
Selectable editing tools
Histogram views for editing distribution of note parameters
Latency compensated automation
Inspector for centralized track/item/note editing functions and options
Supports 64 and 32 bit plugs
Plugin crash guard (plugins run in a separate process so they can crash and be reloaded without stopping the host)
Nested fx
Package manager for an overview of currently installed and downloadable content
Linux support
Polyphonic note expressions for factory devices and plugs that support it: http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic ... 8#p5683228
Global and per clip shuffle and accent control
Device parameter search/filter
Return and master channel clips
Macro controls for each device
Custom device panel mapping
Mixer strip device list
Extreme flexibility in device arrangement: Put an EQ (AudioFX) -> Bass to Midi (instrument) -> Chromaphone (Instrument) on an Audio Track and it actually works as expected, converting the EQed Bass input to midi playing Chromaphone

Cons:
No sidechaining besides the included devices (however the included envelope follower can be used to modulate any device or plugin parameter based on an audio input)
No audio to midi
No crossfades
No groove pool/groove extraction
VST only (no AU)
No midi routing between tracks
No VST multiouts*
No group tracks*

*However regarding these last two Dom of Bitwig has said that they will be coming before v2:
http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic ... 3#p5685089

Other:
No visual programming environment like Max for Live available upon release, but will come integrated in a later version. So I guess there are pro and con aspects of that.
Devices that come with Bitwig: http://0dbpl.files.wordpress.com/2014/0 ... -chain.pdf
Ableton Live Intro/Standard/Suite feature comparison: https://www.ableton.com/en/live/feature-comparison/ There is only one version of Bitwig.

[juffi]

Ist there a Way to work with a pitch Editor, similar to variaudio in cubase or melodyne via Ara Support?

[Ogopogo]

Nothing like that. You can use vst tuners though.

[kennyda]

Where's the best place to ask actual questions about Bitwig?

There is a questions-only forum for beta testers where other beta testers try to answer things. I'm guessing it might be made public once it's released, but I could be wrong. This forum (KVR) is good but it's quite technical, and there are pros and cons to having one mega-thread. I can imagine after the release there will be more though. Also I have a forum on my site. Feel free to post questions as threads on there, that's what it's there for.

[Ogopogo]

I would guess that unless you are talking straight to the devs this is one of the best places if not the best place to get info. We have plenty of beta testers, also the devs show up from time to time, and we also have plenty of people who have been following the primary info sources and so can answer a bunch of your questions. Yeah, i'ts full of cats and bs and conversation too but you can do a search or just ask and somebody will see. However I guess it's not that important anymore since in 3 days time you will just be able to try it, read the manual, or visit the Bitwig forum as you say Kenny.

[kennyda]

No crossfades

There are small crossfades made automatically for audio events, or can be if you turn it on. Not sure if this has been discussed.

Also you have gain expressions which show you the wave actually getting smaller when you do a fade, but the audio won't actually overlap unless it's on separate tracks.

Sorry I've not read all the thread so you may have already covered this. I have to prioritize getting tutorials ready for Wednesday.

[Ogopogo]

Oh yeah, Claeus mentioned the anti-click fades and I forgot to try to add that.

Regarding cross-fades, the anti-click fades as we call them do cause the audio event playback to overlap into the neighboring event so they can be use to splice audio without clicks or volume dips, so they are essentially cross-fades. However you can't control how long they are, they're using a fixed duration. As dom pointed out it is quite different to implement features like this for us compared to a traditional daw due to the complexity added by multiple audio events in clip, clip looping and the clip launcher - we want to make sure we nail it completely before doing it.

So this affects audio clips on the timeline as well as audio events within a clip? In that case would you say it would work well enough for splicing takes, or does it not really count unless you have complete control over them?

I guess I could say "No crossfades (togglable anti-click fades will fade between audio parts enough to prevent clips but cannot be edited)"

[kennyda]

QUOTE

Arrange clip launcher ENORMOUS FEATURE
Hybrid audio/midi tracks BIG FEATURE
Track based midi ? YOU MEAN TRACK EDITING MODE?
Layered midi editing (view and edit multiple tracks and the same time) BIG FEATURE
Modulate anything with simple click and drag based modulation system, even vst parameters BIG FEATURE
Full screen edit view BIG, FULL SCREEN IN FACT
Metadata based browser
Open javascript controller support
More flexible window system (support for 3 monitors, view mixer in the arrange view, and more) ARRANGE VIEW MIXER IS A HUGE FEATURE, BUT YOU CAN EVEN MIX IN THE INSPECTOR
Open multiple audio/midi editors at once ? NOT SURE WHAT YOU MEAN BY THIS
Open multiple projects at once with tabs BIG FEATURE
Multiple audio events within an audio clip (editing within audio items) HUMUNGOUS FEATURE
Selectable editing tools COOL feature
Histogram views for editing distribution of note parameters
Latency compensated automation
Inspector for centralized track/item/note editing functions and options NICE
Supports 64 and 32 bit plugs
Plugin crash guard (plugins run in a separate process so they can crash and be reloaded without stopping the host)
Nested fx
Package manager for an overview of currently installed and downloadable content
Linux support
Polyphonic note expressions for factory devices and plugs that support it: http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic ... 8#p5683228
Global and per clip shuffle and accent control
Device parameter search/filter
Return and master channel clips
Macro controls for each device
Custom device panel mapping
Mixer strip device list
Extreme flexibility in device arrangement: Put an EQ (AudioFX) -> Bass to Midi (instrument) -> Chromaphone (Instrument) on an Audio Track and it actually works as expected, converting the EQed Bass input to midi playing Chromaphone

This is a great list but I can think of lots more huge features in Bitwig Studio which Live doesn't have or doesn't do as well. However it's so close now, and I was told not to publish my review until Wednesday, so please read it when it comes out.

Cons:
No sidechaining besides the included devices (however the included envelope follower can be used to modulate any device or plugin parameter based on an audio input)
No audio to midi
No crossfades
No groove pool/groove extraction
VST only (no AU)
No midi routing between tracks
No VST multiouts*
No group tracks*

*However regarding these last two Dom of Bitwig has said that they will be coming before v2:
http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic ... 3#p5685089

Other:
No visual programming environment like Max for Live available upon release, but will come integrated in a later version. So I guess there are pro and con aspects of that.
Devices that come with Bitwig: http://0dbpl.files.wordpress.com/2014/0 ... -chain.pdf
Ableton Live Intro/Standard/Suite feature comparison: https://www.ableton.com/en/live/feature-comparison/ There is only one version of Bitwig.
One version is a big plus in my opinion
END QUOTE. MY COMMENTS IN RED

[Ogopogo]

Thanks, Kenny. By "Open multiple audio/midi editors at once" I meant this: http://www.screendream.de/stuff/Bitwig/ ... diting.jpg

I guess I need to reword that though.

As for your notes about which features are big and humongous I'm not sure what to do about that except try to reorganize so that the most important stuff is at the top.

Gotta say I'm pretty curious about all the other huge features that I'm apparently missing. I thought we had seen just about everything to be seen in this thread. I was intending for this to be a complete overview of the biggest stuff to be available at release since that's when there will probably be most demand for answering these questions. I believe Bitwig also freed the testers up to say what to reveal what they wanted way back when this thread got rolling and that's what we have been operating on since then with no complaints. So maybe they are refering to keeping your whole review under wraps but not any specific facts? Oh well, I don't want to badger you, do what you are comfortable with.

[pdxindy]

Does Bitwig have the equivalent of the Key/Midi assign like in Live?

Also, Live has the A/B crossfader... does Bitwig have an equivalent?

I know Bitwig has the bounce in place, but is that like Live's Freeze that can be unfrozen?

[Regnas]

One version is a big plus in my opinion

+1

[Ogopogo]

Good thoughts, pdx

I guess however it ends up I need to put a note that it's not guaranteed to be complete.

[pdxindy]

Also Bitwig has no tap tempo right?