All wood sounds the same. I've null tested them all.jancivil wrote:What about the quality of the wood?hibidy wrote:It's not the tools, it's the carpenter
Are 3rd party plugs becoming obsolete?
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- KVRAF
- 6155 posts since 4 Dec, 2004
I like the parables but some carpenters actually do have superior tools. i say this as someone who used to be a carpenter apprentice.I hated working outside in the winter and the right tools meant getting indoors faster.
Try doing roofing with a ball peen hammer and it'll all become clear. -
- KVRAF
- 25053 posts since 20 Oct, 2007 from gonesville
"it's the carpenter not the tools" - I'm not sure what that's supposed to do in a conversation. It's reductive and it seems to want to obliterate argumentation.
As Lawrence just showed, get literal with that and there are clearly good and bad tools and you don't want to use the wrong tool for a task.
Before I got tools, maybe you can say I'm not fit enough to say, but with what was in Cubase, and afaict through 5.5.3 which I use today, I wouldn't be mixing hardly at all. All of the tools are third-party and I even use another host TO HOST most things and as a mixer.
Beyond quality - of the sound, eg - people get on with an interface they learn better from than some other interface and grow with the tools.
If there is one of us that is so well-fitted to the activity of mixing audio that the tools don't matter, jolly for them but it doesn't do anything for me.
As Lawrence just showed, get literal with that and there are clearly good and bad tools and you don't want to use the wrong tool for a task.
Before I got tools, maybe you can say I'm not fit enough to say, but with what was in Cubase, and afaict through 5.5.3 which I use today, I wouldn't be mixing hardly at all. All of the tools are third-party and I even use another host TO HOST most things and as a mixer.
Beyond quality - of the sound, eg - people get on with an interface they learn better from than some other interface and grow with the tools.
If there is one of us that is so well-fitted to the activity of mixing audio that the tools don't matter, jolly for them but it doesn't do anything for me.
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- KVRAF
- 42529 posts since 21 Dec, 2005
(edit, @ Lawrence) Exactly.
To try and stay on topic, I can't get abletons operator to sound like trilian. An extreme example, but the point is that someone went through careful meticulous time to bring those bass samples to fruition. I also don't like using "graphic" eq's as much as something like maybe a SSL emu. It's personal taste.
To try and stay on topic, I can't get abletons operator to sound like trilian. An extreme example, but the point is that someone went through careful meticulous time to bring those bass samples to fruition. I also don't like using "graphic" eq's as much as something like maybe a SSL emu. It's personal taste.
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- KVRAF
- 25053 posts since 20 Oct, 2007 from gonesville
Steinberg is not going to get deeply into the same business as VSL, nor vice versa.
But I don't see that it's adding that much to the price point, what they have gone into. I forget what I paid for it, which wasn't full price nor was it any upgrade but I haven't noticed a price point I find unusual with C7, or an upgrade path that shocked me.
So here is VSL with transparent EQs and comps and a certain surgical approach vs T-Racks and an interface out of analog and a certain conceptualization, with the point being to add 'character'. I wouldn't be buying Cubase 8 looking for either, or any instrument. My sound does owe to my choice of plugins. I think a chef and ingredients is a better analogy.
But I don't see that it's adding that much to the price point, what they have gone into. I forget what I paid for it, which wasn't full price nor was it any upgrade but I haven't noticed a price point I find unusual with C7, or an upgrade path that shocked me.
So here is VSL with transparent EQs and comps and a certain surgical approach vs T-Racks and an interface out of analog and a certain conceptualization, with the point being to add 'character'. I wouldn't be buying Cubase 8 looking for either, or any instrument. My sound does owe to my choice of plugins. I think a chef and ingredients is a better analogy.
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- KVRAF
- 3057 posts since 4 Jan, 2005
Yep . Most hosts come with great plugins these days . Even Reapers reaplugins are great .. Especially the EQ .. The strategy of having third party plugins is you can use them with any host ...
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- KVRAF
- 6155 posts since 4 Dec, 2004
True. 3rd party plugs work in anything so in that regard, they have more value.
Anyway, it's pretty easy to get attached to some stock plugs, to miss them when you work in another host. With Cubase for me it was it's doubler and transient designer plugs and to a lesser degree, Reverence. With S1 it's Open Air, Pro Eq and Analog Delay.
Anyway, it's pretty easy to get attached to some stock plugs, to miss them when you work in another host. With Cubase for me it was it's doubler and transient designer plugs and to a lesser degree, Reverence. With S1 it's Open Air, Pro Eq and Analog Delay.
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- KVRAF
- 6155 posts since 4 Dec, 2004
P.S. Re: Tools... If you've ever seen anyone accidentally amputate something with a power saw, you'd immediately recognize the power saw that shuts down in 1/200th of a second on and/or with impending skin contact as being a superior tool allowing you to work more and worry less.
Of course, the mafia doesn't use that particular model.
Of course, the mafia doesn't use that particular model.
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Quietinthedark Quietinthedark https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=289337
- KVRist
- 181 posts since 5 Oct, 2012
Noo.
My DAW has good quality plugs sure for all the normal bases we need covered, but with 3rd parties I have all different flavors. Different amp sims, different synths. I dont thnk we're anywhere near seeing the heavy lifting being done by most people by a one-size-fits-all DAW.
My DAW has good quality plugs sure for all the normal bases we need covered, but with 3rd parties I have all different flavors. Different amp sims, different synths. I dont thnk we're anywhere near seeing the heavy lifting being done by most people by a one-size-fits-all DAW.
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- KVRAF
- 25421 posts since 3 Feb, 2005 from in the wilds
No way would I ever consider giving up my 3rd party plug-ins... and there are synths like Bazille and Aalto which have no equivalent in the major DAW's.
There are many plug-ins for which there is no equal in the major DAW's, or if one of those DAW's happens to have something close enough, that does not mean other DAW's do.
Then there is something like Reaktor... show me something similar in Cubase...
There are many plug-ins for which there is no equal in the major DAW's, or if one of those DAW's happens to have something close enough, that does not mean other DAW's do.
Then there is something like Reaktor... show me something similar in Cubase...
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- KVRAF
- 42529 posts since 21 Dec, 2005
It's a bummer to not be able to use "open air" in "live" for example. I have a tendency to just lean towards let's say the NI RC verbs. That way I can use them in both.fedexnman wrote:Yep . Most hosts come with great plugins these days . Even Reapers reaplugins are great .. Especially the EQ .. The strategy of having third party plugins is you can use them with any host ...
