Studio one

[Andywanders]

Well, my Nord and Access Virus TI run perfectly in time, and that's all I care about...

I'm happy that you are happy for me btw.

The Access Virus TI has an arpeggiator - not a sequencer - and as such, it doesn't need MIDI song position messages. Not sure about Nord keyboards, but I'm guessing it's the same.

My Yamaha Motif arpeggiator (and other tempo based parameters such as LFOs etc) sync fine with Studio One, just like your Virus. The problem rears its ugly head when trying to sync a sequencer which needs accurate song position info.

I realise this isn't an issue for you, but it is for me (and others too). Furthermore, Presonus have known about it for at least a year and still haven't fixed it.

In all other aspects, Studio One works fine and with some more MIDI love it will be even better. One thing I'd like to see is an event editor like the one in Logic.

In the meantime...

Peace

Andy

[Robmobius]

Well, my Nord and Access Virus TI run perfectly in time, and that's all I care about...

I'm happy that you are happy for me btw.

The Access Virus TI has an arpeggiator - not a sequencer - and as such, it doesn't need MIDI song position messages. Not sure about Nord keyboards, but I'm guessing it's the same.

My Yamaha Motif arpeggiator (and other tempo based parameters such as LFOs etc) sync fine with Studio One, just like your Virus. The problem rears its ugly head when trying to sync a sequencer which needs accurate song position info.

I realise this isn't an issue for you, but it is for me (and others too). Furthermore, Presonus have known about it for at least a year and still haven't fixed it.

In all other aspects, Studio One works fine and with some more MIDI love it will be even better. One thing I'd like to see is an event editor like the one in Logic.

In the meantime...

Peace

Andy

Fair enough... I can see that being a problem alright. The only thing that runs out of sink for me is Tone2's Nemesis Arp. But that's only if you stop it mid-tune. That said I can't be sure if it's Nemesis or S1, but it's no biggie.

The Virus was a nightmare in Ableton 8. It would fall out of sink all the time. Couple that with Ableton's poor quality FX and awful interface. It was a no brainer for me to switch.

Logic 9 suffers from poor workhorse FX (like its EQ). However, it has some very nice boutique plugs, and is an extremely good price. Logic for me though, was very unstable and it's loop mode would never refresh properly, and I have a host of other complaints. Where as S1 has a nice back up feature and you'd not lose much if it crashed.

I see quite a lot of people in the thread (and other threads) bitching and moaning about it... But yet they continue to use it. If it doesn't do what you want just sell the license and move on.

That's what I'd do anyway...

S1 is not perfect, but it's the best I've used - for what I wan to do.

[Robmobius]

Double post.

[LawrenceF]

If it doesn't do what you want just sell the license and move on.

That's what I'd do anyway...

That's a reasonable comment imo.

An even more reasonable observation (imo, mmv) that has me regularly scratching my head is why anyone who has very strong opinions about what a pro workstation should and shouldn't do out of the gate will even - buy - anything that doesn't already do what they need to do.

You get 30 days to use most things for free. Why buy anything that's "not ready"? It happens so often that I get the distinct impression that either some people like being unhappy and/or are just too lazy to really test an application before they pay for it.

Then of course, some are just addicted to buying software, they buy everything anyway.

Many will pretty obviously directly accept - for example - Bitwigs limitations by paying for it, and then almost immediately start complaining about those limitations.

Anyway, it's odd to me. My eventual personal moaning about Cubase was the result of about 12-15 years before that of not moaning, but eventually just having had enough with their approach to some things. It certainly didn't start very early on.

[Robmobius]

If it doesn't do what you want just sell the license and move on.

That's what I'd do anyway...

That's a reasonable comment imo.

An even more reasonable observation (imo, mmv) that has me regularly scratching my head is why anyone who has very strong opinions about what a pro workstation should and shouldn't do out of the gate will even - buy - anything that doesn't already do what they need to do.

You get 30 days to use most things for free. Why buy anything that's "not ready"? It happens so often that I get the distinct impression that either some people like being unhappy and/or are just too lazy to really test an application before they pay for it.

Then of course, some are just addicted to buying software, they buy everything anyway.

This is it mate... Everyone 'got the memo' after the 30 day demo. So their should be no big surprises at what it can and can't do. If people are buying software, and hoping for something to be implemented on a later release, then that's their own fault. Because development is notoriously slow... So if you have any doubts just skip it and simply move on.

Personally, I wouldn't spend 400e on a DAW that wouldn't be compatible with my equipment. I'd spend a few days trouble shooting then I'd just chuck it.

S1 has had a decent amount of updates in my opinion and 2.6 was a biggie and nice to get it for free.

So I have high hopes for V3.

[LawrenceF]

Sure. I mean, we obviously do knowingly accept some limitations at times hoping that it will change soon enough, I do get that, but we maybe shouldn't so often accept and pay for any limitations that are REALLY IMPORTANT CRITICAL THINGS THAT STUNT US MUSICALLY AND HAVE US TYPING IN ANGRY CAPS ABOUT IT LATER.

If it's really that important, the limitation, don't accept / pay for it? If it's not really that important, why get angry about it?

There's a wee bit of a logical disconnect there. You buy a software product for what it does at the time, never knowing what will happen with it in the future. You almost always pay again for the future.

[dsan@mail.com]

...........There's a wee bit of a logical disconnect there. You buy a software product for what it does at the time, never knowing what will happen with it in the future. You almost always pay again for the future.

That's the part I don't get....the levels of expectation and entitlement.

I absolutely agree with you, you buy it for what it is and does now.

IF they come along with updates that improve the product and IF they offer the update for free then great; otherwise it is used as it is at the time of purchase.

If there is additional cost then one must decide is the cost worth it.

It is just wrong though to think that what I buy today will be different tomorrow and they should give it to me. Who works for free?

On the flip side, it has to work (DOES NOT CONSTANTLY CRASH!). Truly, that is my only expectation when I make a buy. Unfortunately that has not always been my experience. Live 8 was a constant crash fest for me and I became disenchanted with Live.

I took the chance, after reading many many posts and upgraded to Live 9. It seems much more stable now with just an occasional crash (as does S1 only fewer of ). Now, instead of crashing it takes forever to load 20 minutes or more sometimes.

Ok...carry on

Happy Musiking!
dsan

[Robmobius]

Definitely agree - it has to work on a reasonable level. That's what Ableton 8 was like for me. It kept crashing all the freaking time... I thought it was just my set up or something, but there were loads of complaints on the forums too.

I've know idea what 9 is like tho' to be fair... But at that stage I was well on S1 V2

As long as you can make music at the end of the day, that's the main thing. It doesn't matter what colour the cat is, as long as it catches the mouse so to speak.

[hibidy]

It never ceases to amaze me, these threads.

[SODDI]

My Yamaha Motif arpeggiator (and other tempo based parameters such as LFOs etc) sync fine with Studio One, just like your Virus. The problem rears its ugly head when trying to sync a sequencer which needs accurate song position info.

Does that include software sequencers like Thesys, to your knowledge?

[Andywanders]

My Yamaha Motif arpeggiator (and other tempo based parameters such as LFOs etc) sync fine with Studio One, just like your Virus. The problem rears its ugly head when trying to sync a sequencer which needs accurate song position info.

Does that include software sequencers like Thesys, to your knowledge?

Yes unfortunately it does.

If you start Studio One from the beginning of the song, no problem. However, if you start the song from anywhere else (halfway through a measure - beat 3 of bar 1 for example), Thesys STILL starts from the beginning and continues playing out-of-sync with the rest of the song.

Using a synth's arpeggiator isn't a problem because the start of the arpeggio is triggered by a note-on event and doesn't need any MIDI song position information info. As long as the initial note-on is quantised, the arpeggio will be in sync. But sequencers... Forget it.

It's even worse with hardware sequencers because Studio One sends a "MIDI Clock Continue" message when you hit Stop and the hardware keeps on running till the end of the sequence, or until you hit Stop on the hardware.

Like I said earlier, you can check all this with Studio One's built-in MIDI Monitor.

I find this behaviour doubly strange considering the S1 programmers (or at least some of them) used to work for Steinberg. Cubase behaves perfectly with other sequencers - start, stop and continue messages are all sent correctly. I guess this reflects the fact that Cubase started life as a MIDI only sequencer all those years ago and still has some of that code in its genes. Obviously the S1 devs lost those "genes" when they left Steinberg.

Having said all that, it is what it is, and as pointed out in other posts in this thread; we need to choose the appropriate DAW for our way of working. I know for example that If I want to compose with VSTs and audio, Studio One will do the job just fine. But If I want to work on a piece which I started on my Motif, I need to fire up Cubase. At least I have that choice.

Though I still live in the hope that one of these days Presonus will fix this.

[hibidy]

Oh stop with the entitlement!

J/K!!

Yeah, sounds a mess to me.

[LawrenceF]

Hibidy, you troublemaker.

Andy, that all sounds pretty bad, I hope they get it sorted at some point.

Below is an example of where I always get in trouble, trying to understand other people's thinking. I think I should probably just stop trying, but as a final example...

I find this behaviour doubly strange considering the S1 programmers (or at least some of them) used to work for Steinberg. Cubase behaves perfectly with other sequencers - start, stop and continue messages are all sent correctly.

That would make perfect sense if they, those specific few people, were the people who did the bulk of that midi code for Cubase. But of course, we don't know that. Just because they worked at Steinberg at some point does not actually mean they did that specific thing there or directly worked on any Cubase midi code at all. Even Wolfgang Kundrus. I don't personally know if he coded a lot of midi in Cubase or if he spent all his time working on the audio engine and some other guys did most of the midi code.

There's probably been a good bit of developer turnover at Steiny over the last 20 years... so on it's face, that direct connection to that particular issue seems... tenuous.

That's what I kinda mean about always getting in trouble trying to understand the logic behind some of the thinking.

Thanks Andy.

[Andywanders]

There's probably been a good bit of developer turnover at Steiny over the last 20 years... so on it's face, that direct connection to that particular issue seems... tenuous.

I guess you're right, and I guess I should stop making assumptions about the S1 devs.



Cheers, Andy

[hibidy]

Hibidy, you troublemaker.

Present!

It all seems so black and white to me. Fix shit that doesn't work, make shit that people want, I know, I'm hopeless.